Mind Spawnpoint

[bigfatchef]

First off all we need more mind creatures. There are only three right now, if I don't miss something. Alright you you'll swarm those, but still it would be much more fun with a higher diversity. There is a nightmare growing I hope
At the moment all three mind creatures are kind of weak and limited. Besides one thoughtspore as actionsupport (teleport or sleep) taking a grizzly or cervere as a buddy for the forcemaster is always the better (though expensive) choice. A level 3 or 4 not-so-fast-dieing heavy hitter would be a welcome card.

[Trent Magnus]

Honestly, there needs to be more mind creatures available before we bother with a spawnpoint. Regular spawnpoints are mana sinks that require many rounds to “payoff”. Currently, the typical Force Master will have a max of 3 creatures (Invisible Stalker and 2 Thought Spores), usually less. The action and mana spent on a spawn point are best used elsewhere.

As to what it would look like, I always imagined something like a Green Lantern Ring. You just point, shoot and out pops a mind creature (color coded to your current emotional state, of course).

[Sailor Vulcan]

Honestly, there needs to be more mind creatures available before we bother with a spawnpoint. Regular spawnpoints are mana sinks that require many rounds to “payoff”. Currently, the typical Force Master will have a max of 3 creatures (Invisible Stalker and 2 Thought Spores), usually less. The action and mana spent on a spawn point are best used elsewhere.

As to what it would look like, I always imagined something like a Green Lantern Ring. You just point, shoot and out pops a mind creature (color coded to your current emotional state, of course).

Technically seedling pods are spawnpoints, although they get destroyed after a single use. Just wanted to point that out.

[Halewijn]

For me a spawnpoint is not about saving the mana but more about saving the actions.

I wouldn't mind paying 7-ish mana for a spawnpoint that could cast thoughtspores. Even without channeling.

[Trent Magnus]

For me a spawnpoint is not about saving the mana but more about saving the actions.

I wouldn't mind paying 7-ish mana for a spawnpoint that could cast thoughtspores. Even without channeling.

How many Thoughtspores do you plan on playing? If it is 4, maybe. Less than that is not worth the extra mana and spellbook points.

[Halewijn]

How many Thoughtspores do you plan on playing? If it is 4, maybe. Less than that is not worth the extra mana and spellbook points.

true. In general I play 0-1 thoughtspores because I don't want to stand still and cast one. Just wanted to say that I don't use spawnpoints for the mana advantage. 

With a johktari I almost always use a lair. With the beastmaster I almost never use one because of his quick summoning.

Since thoughtspores cost a lot of mana to use this analogy is probably incorrect.

[Puddnhead]

For me a spawnpoint is not about saving the mana but more about saving the actions.

I wouldn't mind paying 7-ish mana for a spawnpoint that could cast thoughtspores. Even without channeling.

How many Thoughtspores do you plan on playing? If it is 4, maybe. Less than that is not worth the extra mana and spellbook points.

I would totally play a mind spawnpoint for just spores.  7 mana sounds awesome.  I'd run it with two spores!  A quick action to summon some creatures and make the enemy seriously consider closing with me!  Yes please!

The biggest trouble for the Forcemaster is the full action.  You either delay your advance at the beginning to cast a Thoughtspore or you risk it suffering an alpha strike if you summon it too close to the enemy.  Summoning it early means that you have to guess what spell would be most useful on it.  Summoning it later ends up costing you two actions to cast it because you have to use some kind of enchantment to keep it alive (Brace Yourself, Gator Toughness, Blur, Jinx, etc).

[Pelthar]

I've always considered Thoughtspores to be created from the will of the caster.  Having a spawnpoint that creates them does not make sense to me from a ...but...having a spell that destroys 3 Thoughtspores in a single zone to create spawnpoint (a gate to another dimension) in that zone does make sense.  The problem is that would be 24 spell points on top of the cost to create the spawn point and the extra action economy cost.

So, new creature?  Call it a Mindspore.  Costing 3, only having 1(or zero) attack dice, with the pest and cantrip traits, and is quick castable.  It's only purpose is to be used to create the Mindgate(?).  Mindgate is a spawn point costing 3, in addition to having to destroy 2-3 Mindspores as an additional cost.  It would be able to summon any creature in the mages spell book.

Just thoughts off the top of my head as to how to make a thematically appropriate spawnpoint.

[iNano78]

Again, it could be cheap (like 4 or 5 mana?) and only have, say, 2 tokens that each get removed when you summon a creature.  Or a mana cost proportional to how many tokens you put on it.  This way, it is reasonably priced but can't be abused to summon a huge swarm, since that goes against the theme of a (usually solo-ish) Forcemaster.

[Laddinfance]

So there has been a lot of really interesting ideas throughout this thread.

So from my perspective, when we made the Forcemaster, we made her with the understanding that the Mind school would always be very sparse for creatures. From day one Mind mages have not been meant to have the same sort of plays that other Mages have. From the creative side, and I'm sure our Loremaster could say more, the Mind school has very very few creatures of its own, just Psyocculuses really. So, having a spawnpoint for the Forcemaster doesn't really work both from our focus on the mage and from the creative side as well.

Now, all of that said there are a bunch of ideas that I have for more mind creatures. However, they're also trying to keep in mind the idea that the Forcemaster is not meant to have tons of creatures and that the Mind school as a whole is not meant for that.

When we were working on FVW, I had worked out a whole list of possible mechanics and card Ideas to help bridge the Forcemasters obvious weakness and let her accomplish her goals. Personally I found a huge amount of originality in working on all of those cards. There was so much not used, and some of that was completely understandable. However, it does excite me to work on the alternate Forcemaster. I know I've mentioned some of my dream to make him a bit like a Green Lantern. We'll see what happens there, after all I'm working on a lot before then and so things could change.

I hope this gives you guys a bit of insight about the Forcemaster and her relationship with her creatures. Now, I'll let you all get back to your conversation.

[Moonglow]

trying to keep in mind the idea that the Forcemaster is not meant to have tons of creatures and that the Mind school as a whole is not meant for that.

Laddin, do you mean the FM isn't meant to have a lot of creatures in school, or a lot of creatures in play?  i.e. you're trying to force (see what I did there) it to be more solo/big buddy builds?  I'm kind of presuming the former.

The trouble is the mind creatures we've got kinda suck.  They've all got some good coolness to them, but (and perhaps its a meta problem), they struggle to stay alive and be worth the mana and tempo cost for getting them out.  I mean the Psyloc should be awesome, but its a one swat pony.  I looove invisible stalker, but spend most of my time trying to maintain action advantage so he does't go visible and leave the mage a chance to splat him and as a result hardly attacking with IS (I've read the discussion about the advantage of having the enemy mage constantly holding back an attack to strike IS).

If AW isn't anti FM's with lots of mind creatures in play, then the cantrip 'thought spore' concept seems kinda cool.  Like FM drops a thought and it cognates over 2-3 rounds and then eureka, you've a mind creature. 

[Pelthar]

One thing I like about the Mindspore idea (as I think more on it) is that they don't necessarily need to join together to from a spawnpoint.  There can be spells that use the mindspores to create other constructs.  Of course this takes them out of the range of individual creature cards and more into tokens as they become building blocks of other things.  Which could imply that there is a helmet that is an ersatz spawnpoint for the mindspore tokens themselves rather than actual creatures.

Just playing around with the idea/thinking aloud/dropping mindworms.

[Laddinfance]

Laddin, do you mean the FM isn't meant to have a lot of creatures in school, or a lot of creatures in play?  i.e. you're trying to force (see what I did there) it to be more solo/big buddy builds?  I'm kind of presuming the former.

It is a bit of both. The Mind School is not meant to have many creatures, and the Forcemaster is not meant to have a lot of creatures in play. She's meant to be a lone wolf character.

The trouble is the mind creatures we've got kinda suck.  They've all got some good coolness to them, but (and perhaps its a meta problem), they struggle to stay alive and be worth the mana and tempo cost for getting them out.  I mean the Psyloc should be awesome, but its a one swat pony.  I looove invisible stalker, but spend most of my time trying to maintain action advantage so he does't go visible and leave the mage a chance to splat him and as a result hardly attacking with IS (I've read the discussion about the advantage of having the enemy mage constantly holding back an attack to strike IS).

You pass to ensure you don't have to activate until the end right? In this way the Invisible Stalker will only have to worry about one creature and a quickcast. Now you're right, the opposing mage is going to be the best thing to attack at it. For me personally, I like the IS against Necromancers, as they have to pay extra spellpoints for ethereal attacks and a 5D attack is pretty solid against them and their creatures normally.

[Halewijn]

The stalker is one of those undervalued creatures. Granted, when battling a wizard with a zap I would never cast it, but I've had great success with it!

Every round I guess if the opponent prepared an (ethereal) attack spell and try attack when I think he didn't.
With its 7 life it can probably even survive an ethereal attack.  I think of it as a win if the opponent didn't cast his quick cast because I didn't activate.

If I give my forcemaster a mongoose agility and use a stalker guards become completely useless!

[Trent Magnus]

The stalker is one of those undervalued creatures. Granted, when battling a wizard with a zap I would never cast it, but I've had great success with it!

Every round I guess if the opponent prepared an (ethereal) attack spell and try attack when I think he didn't.
With its 7 life it can probably even survive an ethereal attack.  I think of it as a win if the opponent didn't cast his quick cast because I didn't activate.

If I give my forcemaster a mongoose agility and use a stalker guards become completely useless!

I agree 100%. Stalker does not get much play because it is a FM only creature. People often forget the Stalking part. Patience is key.