Community Card Construction - Making a level 4 Nightmare Creature

[Kaarin]

[mwcard=MW1Q05]Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]'s attack is called demonic presence. Why not infuse mind creature with that? Just give it additional dice (or vampiric) vs sleeping and maybe full cast sleep without its own channeling. This way it will work against targets with psychic immunity while still having nightmare function.

[Rinc]

How about making it invisible as the stalker?

And make it so it can only do damage against nonliving things (skeletons, conjurations etc). Or more damage against nonliving than living things.

Not fanciful at all, but it takes care of the problem of nonliving for the fm.

[exid]

What about:

Darkness of your fears
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana / only 7 mana in a zone with a sleeping creature
incorporeal, 8 life
attack 1 (fall to me): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare): psychic, unavoidable, target asleep, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 CONFUSED counter on the target


CONFUSED:
psychic condition
remove cost of 3
-2 defenses (for each counter)
when attacks roll 7+ or fail (for each counter)

[fas723]

But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.

Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if we don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.

[sIKE]

But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.

Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.

That's par for the course....The Warlock has a thousand creatures and the FM 3 with none being really useful. With that said, I am done here, have fun with this thematic but not very useable (i.e. playable for FM) creature.

[Sailor Vulcan]

But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.

Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.

That's par for the course....The Warlock has a thousand creatures and the FM 3 with none being really useful. With that said, I am done here, have fun with this thematic but not very useable (i.e. playable for FM) creature.

I'm sure there will be future mind mages who can use it.

[Laddinfance]

sIKE is looking at what is immediately useful. Yes, there could be other interactions later, but his feedback is based off of what is out right now.

[Halewijn]

I kind of agree with Sike, but then the knight should NOT replace the invisible stalker. He's hard to get right, but I just love him and I would hate him getting replaced by a better alternative.

Even though I love the idea of a dark/force nightmare creature, my vote is too the dark/force knight. (presumed he is cool enough to earn his own spot and not just replace the stalker  )

[fas723]

Me too wanted to see a dark force based knight / nimble assassin. But Nightmare it is, and then I think it would be foolish to make it with knight stats...

[exid]

there have been above a lot of ideas for the nightmare creatures, but if we are still arguing about a dark knight, a force creature or a level 2 nature conjuration, we don't get anywhere!

[Moonglow]

I feel you've totally misinterpretted my proposal, to the point its nothing like I was suggesting.  I'd responded to Gogolski's concept, in that I quite liked it.

My suggestion is about a dark attack, that's linked to the sleep/mental ability, but is a dark attack.  Its not about making undead have nightmares, I don't get how you got there.  My idea (albiet poorly articulated) is more about channeling the sleeping creatures nightmares/dreams into a physical attack that's dark based.  A pillar of light is channeling the deities thought/will, a nightmare pillar of dark could be channeling the dark dreams/nightmares of sleeping living creatures.

The idea was to try and make the creature versatile in multiple situations, but to need careful play and planning to make it super strong.  Sleeping living creatures is good on its own, but if you're facing an undead swarm is pointless, unless you can create a swarm to succumbus off and blast the undead with filtered ichor of the sleeping creatures nightmares.  The pillar of dark is weak without a host of sleeping batteries to power it...

I was going to say the nightmare felt too fragile - one decent lightening anything and its gone, but then realised its a cantrip and it doesn't matter! genius! It has a high mana overhead to keep going and you wouldn't be popping it out every turn if the opponent was successfully blasting it....

I like the first model better than the beating them unconscious element, sleep with a slight vampiric element seems more thematic.

I still agree with the whole psychic gap against an undead swarm problem...this is a cool card, but wouldn't help that vulnerability at all.  Could you add a pillar of dark attack that is 1 dice per sleeping creating within 1 zone?  So you could even sleep your own creatures to build a lethal dark based attack useful against a swarm.  It would need decent investment to make it work, but would have a lot of versatility.

But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.

[exid]

so...
with a non-psychic attack:

Nightmare blaster
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana
incorporeal, 10 life
attack 1 (sleep): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 5 dices, etheral, to cast this attack the Nightmare blaster must be in the same zone as a sleeping creature

[wtcannonjr]

I feel you've totally misinterpretted my proposal, to the point its nothing like I was suggesting.  I'd responded to Gogolski's concept, in that I quite liked it.

My suggestion is about a dark attack, that's linked to the sleep/mental ability, but is a dark attack.  Its not about making undead have nightmares, I don't get how you got there.  My idea (albiet poorly articulated) is more about channeling the sleeping creatures nightmares/dreams into a physical attack that's dark based.  A pillar of light is channeling the deities thought/will, a nightmare pillar of dark could be channeling the dark dreams/nightmares of sleeping living creatures.

The idea was to try and make the creature versatile in multiple situations, but to need careful play and planning to make it super strong.  Sleeping living creatures is good on its own, but if you're facing an undead swarm is pointless, unless you can create a swarm to succumbus off and blast the undead with filtered ichor of the sleeping creatures nightmares.  The pillar of dark is weak without a host of sleeping batteries to power it...

But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.

I was just responding to the concept of a nightmare creature as a solution to the Forcemaster psychic gap. I didn't even think about the mechanics of your proposed attack. I like the idea of feeding off sleeping creatures to make the attack stronger.

Perhaps another ability of the Nightmare would be to ignore terrain effects. This would interact with Battlegrounds play.

[Moonglow]

Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10(?) mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling - may not be necessary, would limit the sleep attack without it...
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature. (I thought this was cool - might be even more amazing and add to resiliency if it was a once a turn ready marker power)

Quick attack: Can cast sleep
Slow attack 1: Can cast mass sleep (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)

Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare the same amount.

Slow attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 1+x dice, dark, etheral, X = sleeping creatures within 1 zone of the Nightmare.

The vampiric effect may be a little unnecessary as its a cantrip and 6 damage is a pretty easy kill, it might make more sense for it to just get recast... so keep the mana in the 10 range, but leave it as a little fragile.

Mass sleep might be too powerful combined with the blast, but I wasnt sure if a single sleep was sufficient?

The creature still has quite a lot of flex, but against a solo buffed mage has little it can do, so isnt a guaranteed play.

so...
with a non-psychic attack:

Nightmare blaster
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana
incorporeal, 10 life
attack 1 (sleep): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 5 dices, etheral, to cast this attack the Nightmare blaster must be in the same zone as a sleeping creature

[Coshade]

This is all I can think of!