Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laddinfance on October 09, 2015, 09:54:44 AM
-
Sorry for the delay everyone. I swear I hadn't forgotten about you. Our last poll showed that we wanted a level 4 nightmare creature. This gives us a ton of options, but the first question is do we want this creature to be Legendary or not?
Next, looking at "Nightmare Creature" there are tons of options in front of us. First there is the creature who feeds on dreams. This would be like a kick ass version of haunter from pokemon. It puts you to sleep and then feeds on you without breaking the condition. Then, there is the "Phantom Force Nightmare". This one could be like a poltergeist or some form of intangible force knight with a horrifying presence. And I'm sure you guys have ideas for this as well. We're close. After this step I'll build some playtest cards for us to see just what we've come up with.
-
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/new-monster/images/3/38/Nightmare.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130702131809)
I'm a fan of the Haunter on steroids idea, but I also kinda like this direction ^
-
I was wondering if someone was going to literally go "Nightmare". I'm not opposed to it.
-
The Pokemon you're thinking of is Drowzee, not haunter. Haunter can learn Dream Eater and Hypnosis but that's not what it's famous for nor what it's pokedex entry says.
-
No, I was thinkn' of Haunter, but that's just because of the misinformation of the Original base set of the Pokemon Card game. Also, he fits the motif we're going for better than Drowzee or Hypnos.
-
still for the put to sleep + attack on sleeping creatures!
i'm not in the pokemon enough to say if it's a haunter or a drowzee, but in MW it would be a giant wolf spider-like.
-
The point of Drowzee/Haunter (more specifically the Dream Eater attack) was that it didn't wake you up if you were asleep. So yes, it would be like the Giant Wolf Spider, except when it attacks a sleeping creature with it's "Dream Eater" then it wouldn't break the sleep.
-
The point of Drowzee/Haunter (more specifically the Dream Eater attack) was that it didn't wake you up if you were asleep. So yes, it would be like the Giant Wolf Spider, except when it attacks a sleeping creature with it's "Dream Eater" then it wouldn't break the sleep.
i'm not against the idea (for exemple if our creature would seem to be too powerfull) to have an escape-awakening roll at the end of the dream-attack.
-
Currently they are plenty of Psychic Immune creatures who wouldn't go to sleep. Also there isn't a way to make a Mage sleep right now. So, I don't think there is too much to worry about, yet. That said there is a lot of designing to do so there is plenty of time to look at balance. We're just talking concepts right now.
-
As I suggested in a previous topic it would be really good for the discussion and understanding if people could add a link with a picture as an example together with the description to describe their Nightmare.
-
I would still like to see a dark nimble knight / death dancer who puts fear into opposing creature by its attacks. Like removing guards, or making them flee. Here's a example picture.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/40/18/f840183c370378c74a3f5a0184106234.jpg (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/40/18/f840183c370378c74a3f5a0184106234.jpg)
-
I assume the Force Knight looks something like this...
(http://img13.deviantart.net/597f/i/2012/352/8/0/dominion_spirit_knight_by_merkwurdigliebe13-d5oenal.jpg)
Then the dream eater I think looks like this...
(https://m2.behance.net/rendition/pm/20563877/disp/d44f5bf6a85eaa8ad84e2fc4b0ae0256.png)
Can't find a good picture of a more "serious" version.
-
http://41.media.tumblr.com/39b436ba881cea1db063de36168e2a24/tumblr_ntxqdooXmO1s6oyi0o1_1280.jpg
right now, i will probably be happy with any outcome. Lvl 4 nightmare mind creature is all i wanted :)
-
I've always been a fan of the "am I awake or am I dreaming" sort of nightmare.
Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things.
Only at the end the butterfly is a tear in the fabric of reality and it has fangs. Oh! The fangs!
-
Then all of the Psychic Immunity Creatures come in to play and you the realize that the nightmare is on you for having such a useless creature in play and start thinking I will just go back to the Grizzly for the FM as he is just so much better.
-
Maybe a creature that has an attack that gains vampiric against sleeping creatures. It could also have an attack that has a chance of causing an enemy creature to fall asleep until the end of the round or until they're damaged, whichever comes first. Don't forget that an incapacitated mage can still use quick non attack spells.
Also...
http://soupandbutter.deviantart.com/art/Haunter-179501197
-
Whatever it is that we actually create, I would like to stand in solidarity with the people who do not want the psychic type on the attack bar. I don't mind if it has a psychic effect on it but it needs to have at least one attack that is good (4 plus dice) that doesn't get shut down by the psychic immune trait.
My preference would be a phantasmal knight such as Aaron showed. Give it an ability that buffs it when a force spell is used...or let it increase in power the more enchantments are attached to the target of its attack.
-
it could have a BIG hammer to put his target to sleep?
-
the first question is do we want this creature to be Legendary or not?
First there is the creature who feeds on dreams. This would be like a kick ass version of haunter from pokemon. It puts you to sleep and then feeds on you without breaking the condition. Then, there is the "Phantom Force Nightmare". This one could be like a poltergeist or some form of intangible force knight with a horrifying presence. And I'm sure you guys have ideas for this as well. We're close. After this step I'll build some playtest cards for us to see just what we've come up with.
Personally, I'd prefer non-legendary. While a Legendary creature allows for more unique abilities, the mind school kind of needs solid mid-tier soldiers to deploy. That being said, I do have an idea or two for a legendary creature as well. Disclaimer: these are all initial ideas, and have had absolutely no thought given to balance concerns yet.
1. Mind-Consuming Darkness
Idea = a dedicated anti-familiar. Consumes them and grows more powerful.
Specifics = attacks gain Unavoidable and +2 against all familiars. If a familiar is killed by this creature's attack, its card is placed under this creature's card. These creatures cannot be resurrected or regained in any way by their mage. For each captured creature card under it, this creature gains Reconstruct +1, Melee +2, and an extra action marker (giving it an extra turn). Whenever this creature takes damage, its controlling mage may discard one of the creature cards under it to regain health equal to the number of health listed on that card. Afterwards, that card is Obliterated.
Notes = the upside is that it's very different from any other existing creatures, and it suits the theme fairly well. The downside is that its abilities would only suit a legendary creature, and familiars aren't extremely popular or prevalent anyway (meaning the card would be HIGHLY situational).
2. Haunting Shadows
Idea = relatively weak creature which enemy mages are forced to deal with personally. Sort of like living homing missiles.
Specifics = this creature may only move in the direction of the nearest enemy mage. It cannot be targeted by any non-mage creatures or conjurations. It is Obscured, Unstoppable, and Uncontainable. It cannot attack anything except a mage, and its attacks are Unavoidable and Critical. It is unaffected by terrain and walls.
Notes = upside is it doesn't have to be legendary, is somewhat unique, and fits the theme of a "phantom force nightmare". Downside is that it will be challenging to make this idea scary instead of annoying for an opposing mage while not having it be too powerful.
3. Nightmare Illusionist
Idea = a solid mid-tier creature which can make damaging illusions of itself, making the enemy guess as to which one is real
Specifics = this card comes with 4 tokens. all tokens possess the same face-up side, and 3 of them say illusion on the other side. The last token says real on its face-down side. When this creature is summoned, place all 4 tokens in areas within 1 space of the controlling mage (can be placed in different spaces from each other). Place the creature card next to the mage's equipment. Each token possesses its own action marker and takes its own turn. Whenever one of the tokens is attacked, it is flipped over. If the token says real, the creature card is placed in that space and all illusion tokens are discarded. If the token says illusion, that token is discarded. Each token may attack and deal damage as normal, but only the real token may damage psychic-immune creatures.
Notes = on the upside, this would give the mind school a solid soldier card, while also incorporating the theme of mind games. On the downside, this might prove unwieldy and intrude too much on whatever is planned for the Siren (or a future Illusionist). It also relies on psychic attacks by necessity (which might be a problem).
I might think of other ideas later.
-
For number 2 make it a quick action to cast. Instant terror. Think it should also be nonliving, lv2, and have a mana cost of 8. Destroy it when it attacks and damages an enemy creature. This makes more sense for an undead goblin bomber than I nightmare, I think. Maybe could be called something like "Shadow Bomber"
Alternatively you could make it epic and cantrip instead of a quick action, although that makes more sense for a grim reaper kind of creature than a nightmare.
-
For a nightmare creature, I'm thinking nonlegendary, its attack gains vampiric vs sleeping creatures. Don't forget that sleeps turn to dazes when a sleeping creature is damaged. Would go well with a dark+mind mage. A few problems:
1. psychic immune creatures and that putting enemy mages to sleep is kinda OP.
2. Why would you want to attack a creature once it was asleep?
3. If the answer to 2 is to bring them back as zombies more easily without your creature killer taking too much damage from awakened creature's attacks, why not just mind control them?
So, to use a nightmare creature effectively, I'm thinking you want a dark/mind Mage that likes to control his enemies. Is the ziggurat necro only or dark Mage only? If it's dark Mage only, I imagine a Mage that wants to play a little similarly to johktari bm in that they want to destroy enemy creatures. Unlike johktari, the living creatures this Mage destroys could come back as a zombie under their control using the ziggurat. All out of school creatures would cost triple. For nonliving creatures agony, enfeeble, force hold, etc will help a lot.
-
Mana cost reduction if there are sleeping creatures in play, combined with direct damage to those creatures when it comes into play?
--
How about a creature that costs more mana if summoned within LoS of an "awake" enemy non-mage living creature. If your opponent has creatures firmly anchored in wakeful reality it makes it harder to summon a nightmare?
This turns the necromancer matchup from a liability to a strength: all those psychic immune zombies aren't awake in any meaningful sense, and so the nightmare(s) can come out to play.
-
If this creature will help the forcemaster against nonliving creatures we have two choices.
Either it is legendary and in this case it will need to be really powerful to be able to take down more than 1 midsized nonliving. Balance wise, this might be hard to achieve.
Or, we make it nonlegendary so you can have more than one of them in your deck. In this case, it might be a little less powerful.
For me, it does not matter.
-
As long as we don't make it "X mage only" I think all ideas above are awesome!
-
Either it is legendary and in this case it will need to be really powerful to be able to take down more than 1 midsized nonliving. Balance wise, this might be hard to achieve.
Or, we make it nonlegendary so you can have more than one of them in your deck. In this case, it might be a little less powerful.
You might be thinking of the Epic trait. You can have multiple copies of a legendary creature in your deck.
-
(I didn't read the entire tread)
The haunter/nightmare creature is really cool and I also very much like the force knight! (I want both :P )
- If it's the haunter then I wouldn't want it to be legendary because, just as in the case of the spiders, they work better in group.
- If it's the knight; Yes, make it legendary! (slightly more powerfull for the same level/mana)
-
As a variation on teleporting to sleeping creatures, the nightmare could be summoned to the zone of a sleeping creature, ignoring range and LoS. That way it's like it came out of that creature's mind.
--
There's a small adjustment that would help a "dreaming type" nightmare: permit it to treat Daze like it does Sleep. That would give the nightmare a longer window of opportunity with living creatures (especially against e.g. Idol of Pestilence), and open opportunities for the Forcemaster's Daze causing Force attacks (and other Daze causing spells).
-
As a variation on teleporting to sleeping creatures, the nightmare could be summoned to the zone of a sleeping creature, ignoring range and LoS. That way it's like it came out of that creature's mind.
the nightmare could:
1) make a target sleep
2) haunt a sleeping target (i don't know for what effect, but it would have to stay by it's pray)
3) when haunting a target it could spin off (summon a copy of itself!)
-
There's a small adjustment that would help a "dreaming type" nightmare: permit it to treat Daze like it does Sleep. That would give the nightmare a longer window of opportunity with living creatures (especially against e.g. Idol of Pestilence), and open opportunities for the Forcemaster's Daze causing Force attacks (and other Daze causing spells).
You could also allow it to inflict sleep on non-mage creatures, similar to what I did in my version. That way, there is a chance that when it attacks its target will remain asleep.
(http://media.use.com/images/s_1/dc7f171f29729a88b46d_59.jpg) (http://www.use.com/dc7f171f29729a88b46d?p=59)
-
There's a small adjustment that would help a "dreaming type" nightmare: permit it to treat Daze like it does Sleep. That would give the nightmare a longer window of opportunity with living creatures (especially against e.g. Idol of Pestilence), and open opportunities for the Forcemaster's Daze causing Force attacks (and other Daze causing spells).
You could also allow it to inflict sleep on non-mage creatures, similar to what I did in my version. That way, there is a chance that when it attacks its target will remain asleep.
(http://media.use.com/images/s_1/dc7f171f29729a88b46d_59.jpg) (http://www.use.com/dc7f171f29729a88b46d?p=59)
I like this approach. The attack itself has a chance to put the Creature back to sleep. A simple use of existing mechanics to keep a creature sleeping.
If we want to expand the sleep dimension we could also consider adding a Deep Sleep condition. This might require two attacks to wake up a creature with twice the removal cost of Sleep.
-
but the nightmare doesn't have to damage the sleeping creature!
it could stack counter on its target that would kill the target when there's 4 counters, that would make the target loose attack dice or attack bar, or life!
the target would remain asleep without a new condition.
-
but the nightmare doesn't have to damage the sleeping creature!
it could stack counter on its target that would kill the target when there's 4 counters, that would make the target loose attack dice or attack bar, or life!
the target would remain asleep without a new condition.
This works too.
Another idea - how about making the Nightmare a familiar that is able to cast only Sleep Enchantments? This gives us another whole design space to expand the sleep world. :)
-
Another idea - how about making the Nightmare a familiar that is able to cast only Sleep Enchantments? This gives us another whole design space to expand the sleep world. :)
we create a simple familiar creature, and then 50 sleep-incantations, -enchantements, -conjurations to developpe all our ideas!
-
Broken Record - then the zombies/jellies/skellies laugh at the Nightmare as its Psychic attacks cant target them much less put them to sleep.
Don't get me wrong, I like a bunch of these ideas, and when the male FM goes into design we should really reference the ideas here.
However if we are going to build something useful now we should make sure that there is a very strong non-psychic based attack that matches up to the mind school and with a tint of darkness thrown in...like a ranged position attack and a force based melee attack. Now that would be a useful creature for the existing Forcemaster.
-
Just to be clear, what we make here will go into testing and could change further. But I want everyone to be as involved as they can in making this creature. I did start this process to fill some gap or plug some hole. I wanted to give you all a chance to help make a part of the game. That said this is your card, lets make it what you, as a community want.
I'm watching all the ideas floating around, and I'm thinkn' I might make a few of them this week to show you just what I'm thinkn' about.
Right now, I think it's clear that this creature should not be legendary. That's fair.
I'll leave you all back to Brainstorming. Remember right now we know he's a level 4 Mind and Dark creature. Have fun!
-
Shadow demon
mind level 2 & dark level 2
range 0 - 2
15 mana
(http://www.zelda.com/hyrule-warriors/img/dlc/shadow-link-grad.png)
Life -
Armor -
Melee -
Cantrip
When shadow demon enters play it gains Life, armor, and all trait and attack options attached to a creature in its zone. Shadow demon cannot have enchantments attached to it.
"My greatest challenge was to overcome myself." - Akiro
-
I wanted to make it a dragon because dragons...
(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/groups/1/10/9031/thumb_620x2000/Durza_s_Shadow_Dragon_by_Tarjcia.jpg)
-
Is it worth trying to put both ideas together? Have a Knight-mare creature? Give it an attack that inflicts sleep as well as an attack that pushes or that does extra damage to unmovable creatures?
-
Is it worth trying to put both ideas together? Have a Knight-mare creature? Give it an attack that inflicts sleep as well as an attack that pushes or that does extra damage to unmovable creatures?
i think it's not good for the game to give fm a creature that erases all her weaknesses!
-
Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10 mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature.
Pay one mana to move to a zone without a sleeping creature
Can cast sleep as a quick action
Can cast mass sleep as a full action (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)
Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare te same amount.
I would like realy him to be able to stack sleep tokens...
I would realy like him to have the cantrip trait too. (Maybe the mage who casts him gets the dazed condition?)
Another idea is giving nightmare growth markers for each sleeping creature within 1 zone. (Teleport anyone?)
Give him no channeling but give him a zero dice attack with a chance to put the attacked creature to sleep. Every growth marker adds a die to the attack and adds 1 to the effect die so he starts doing damage and beats creatures unconcious while feasting on their bad dreams.
If he damages a sleeping creature, remove a sleepmarker as usual, but the effect die may add it again in the same attack.
-
Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10 mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature.
Pay one mana to move to a zone without a sleeping creature
Can cast sleep as a quick action
Can cast mass sleep as a full action (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)
Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare te same amount.
I would like realy him to be able to stack sleep tokens...
I would realy like him to have the cantrip trait too. (Maybe the mage who casts him gets the dazed condition?)
Another idea is giving nightmare growth markers for each sleeping creature within 1 zone. (Teleport anyone?)
Give him no channeling but give him a zero dice attack with a chance to put the attacked creature to sleep. Every growth marker adds a die to the attack and adds 1 to the effect die so he starts doing damage and beats creatures unconcious while feasting on their bad dreams.
If he damages a sleeping creature, remove a sleepmarker as usual, but the effect die may add it again in the same attack.
cool!
-
I was going to say the nightmare felt too fragile - one decent lightening anything and its gone, but then realised its a cantrip and it doesn't matter! genius! It has a high mana overhead to keep going and you wouldn't be popping it out every turn if the opponent was successfully blasting it....
I like the first model better than the beating them unconscious element, sleep with a slight vampiric element seems more thematic.
I still agree with the whole psychic gap against an undead swarm problem...this is a cool card, but wouldn't help that vulnerability at all. Could you add a pillar of dark attack that is 1 dice per sleeping creating within 1 zone? So you could even sleep your own creatures to build a lethal dark based attack useful against a swarm. It would need decent investment to make it work, but would have a lot of versatility.
-
I was going to say the nightmare felt too fragile - one decent lightening anything and its gone, but then realised its a cantrip and it doesn't matter! genius! It has a high mana overhead to keep going and you wouldn't be popping it out every turn if the opponent was successfully blasting it....
I like the first model better than the beating them unconscious element, sleep with a slight vampiric element seems more thematic.
I still agree with the whole psychic gap against an undead swarm problem...this is a cool card, but wouldn't help that vulnerability at all. Could you add a pillar of dark attack that is 1 dice per sleeping creating within 1 zone? So you could even sleep your own creatures to build a lethal dark based attack useful against a swarm. It would need decent investment to make it work, but would have a lot of versatility.
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
-
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
Yep I totally agree, I was angling for Mind + Dark, with the Mind component not on the Psychic side but on the Force side. My thoughts when this was brought up, was that this was the perfect chance to cover the gap you speak of. Nightmares will not do that in Etheria but would do it well in Xanth. Psychic Immunity is a major gap for the FM and this was going to be the chance to cover it, as we have no clue of when the male FM will fit in to the release schedule. Oh, well.
-
What about a tough force creature in the same vein as the dredge from Titan AE (made of energy, etc.)
(http://sfstory.free.fr/images/TitanAE/16t.jpg)
-
[mwcard=MW1Q05]Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]'s attack is called demonic presence. Why not infuse mind creature with that? Just give it additional dice (or vampiric) vs sleeping and maybe full cast sleep without its own channeling. This way it will work against targets with psychic immunity while still having nightmare function.
-
How about making it invisible as the stalker?
And make it so it can only do damage against nonliving things (skeletons, conjurations etc). Or more damage against nonliving than living things.
Not fanciful at all, but it takes care of the problem of nonliving for the fm.
-
What about:
Darkness of your fears
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana / only 7 mana in a zone with a sleeping creature
incorporeal, 8 life
attack 1 (fall to me): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare): psychic, unavoidable, target asleep, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 CONFUSED counter on the target
CONFUSED:
psychic condition
remove cost of 3
-2 defenses (for each counter)
when attacks roll 7+ or fail (for each counter)
-
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if we don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.
-
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.
That's par for the course....The Warlock has a thousand creatures and the FM 3 with none being really useful. With that said, I am done here, have fun with this thematic but not very useable (i.e. playable for FM) creature.
-
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.
That's par for the course....The Warlock has a thousand creatures and the FM 3 with none being really useful. With that said, I am done here, have fun with this thematic but not very useable (i.e. playable for FM) creature.
I'm sure there will be future mind mages who can use it.
-
sIKE is looking at what is immediately useful. Yes, there could be other interactions later, but his feedback is based off of what is out right now.
-
I kind of agree with Sike, but then the knight should NOT replace the invisible stalker. He's hard to get right, but I just love him and I would hate him getting replaced by a better alternative.
Even though I love the idea of a dark/force nightmare creature, my vote is too the dark/force knight. (presumed he is cool enough to earn his own spot and not just replace the stalker ::) )
-
Me too wanted to see a dark force based knight / nimble assassin. But Nightmare it is, and then I think it would be foolish to make it with knight stats...
-
there have been above a lot of ideas for the nightmare creatures, but if we are still arguing about a dark knight, a force creature or a level 2 nature conjuration, we don't get anywhere!
-
I feel you've totally misinterpretted my proposal, to the point its nothing like I was suggesting. I'd responded to Gogolski's concept, in that I quite liked it.
My suggestion is about a dark attack, that's linked to the sleep/mental ability, but is a dark attack. Its not about making undead have nightmares, I don't get how you got there. My idea (albiet poorly articulated) is more about channeling the sleeping creatures nightmares/dreams into a physical attack that's dark based. A pillar of light is channeling the deities thought/will, a nightmare pillar of dark could be channeling the dark dreams/nightmares of sleeping living creatures.
The idea was to try and make the creature versatile in multiple situations, but to need careful play and planning to make it super strong. Sleeping living creatures is good on its own, but if you're facing an undead swarm is pointless, unless you can create a swarm to succumbus off and blast the undead with filtered ichor of the sleeping creatures nightmares. The pillar of dark is weak without a host of sleeping batteries to power it...
I was going to say the nightmare felt too fragile - one decent lightening anything and its gone, but then realised its a cantrip and it doesn't matter! genius! It has a high mana overhead to keep going and you wouldn't be popping it out every turn if the opponent was successfully blasting it....
I like the first model better than the beating them unconscious element, sleep with a slight vampiric element seems more thematic.
I still agree with the whole psychic gap against an undead swarm problem...this is a cool card, but wouldn't help that vulnerability at all. Could you add a pillar of dark attack that is 1 dice per sleeping creating within 1 zone? So you could even sleep your own creatures to build a lethal dark based attack useful against a swarm. It would need decent investment to make it work, but would have a lot of versatility.
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
-
so...
with a non-psychic attack:
Nightmare blaster
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana
incorporeal, 10 life
attack 1 (sleep): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 5 dices, etheral, to cast this attack the Nightmare blaster must be in the same zone as a sleeping creature
-
I feel you've totally misinterpretted my proposal, to the point its nothing like I was suggesting. I'd responded to Gogolski's concept, in that I quite liked it.
My suggestion is about a dark attack, that's linked to the sleep/mental ability, but is a dark attack. Its not about making undead have nightmares, I don't get how you got there. My idea (albiet poorly articulated) is more about channeling the sleeping creatures nightmares/dreams into a physical attack that's dark based. A pillar of light is channeling the deities thought/will, a nightmare pillar of dark could be channeling the dark dreams/nightmares of sleeping living creatures.
The idea was to try and make the creature versatile in multiple situations, but to need careful play and planning to make it super strong. Sleeping living creatures is good on its own, but if you're facing an undead swarm is pointless, unless you can create a swarm to succumbus off and blast the undead with filtered ichor of the sleeping creatures nightmares. The pillar of dark is weak without a host of sleeping batteries to power it...
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
I was just responding to the concept of a nightmare creature as a solution to the Forcemaster psychic gap. I didn't even think about the mechanics of your proposed attack. I like the idea of feeding off sleeping creatures to make the attack stronger.
Perhaps another ability of the Nightmare would be to ignore terrain effects. This would interact with Battlegrounds play.
-
Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10(?) mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling - may not be necessary, would limit the sleep attack without it...
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature. (I thought this was cool - might be even more amazing and add to resiliency if it was a once a turn ready marker power)
Quick attack: Can cast sleep
Slow attack 1: Can cast mass sleep (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)
Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare the same amount.
Slow attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 1+x dice, dark, etheral, X = sleeping creatures within 1 zone of the Nightmare.
The vampiric effect may be a little unnecessary as its a cantrip and 6 damage is a pretty easy kill, it might make more sense for it to just get recast... so keep the mana in the 10 range, but leave it as a little fragile.
Mass sleep might be too powerful combined with the blast, but I wasnt sure if a single sleep was sufficient?
The creature still has quite a lot of flex, but against a solo buffed mage has little it can do, so isnt a guaranteed play.
so...
with a non-psychic attack:
Nightmare blaster
3 mind + 1 dark
cost of 15 mana
incorporeal, 10 life
attack 1 (sleep): psychic, unavoidable, target non-mage, 0 dice, 5+: put 1 sleep counter on the target
attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 5 dices, etheral, to cast this attack the Nightmare blaster must be in the same zone as a sleeping creature
-
This is all I can think of!
-
Nightmare
Lv3 mind + Lv1 dark
Ethereal
Cost: 10(?) mana
6 Life
0 armor
1 channeling - may not be necessary, would limit the sleep attack without it...
Legendary
Cantrip
Upkeep 3
As a move action it can teleport to a zone with a sleeping creature. (I thought this was cool - might be even more amazing and add to resiliency if it was a once a turn ready marker power)
Quick attack: Can cast sleep
Slow attack 1: Can cast mass sleep (enemy and friendly creatures)
Can stack sleep tokens (remove 1 per attack on a sleeping creature)
Each upkeep phase every sleeping creature within 1 zone from nightmare takes 1 direct damage for each sleep token it has, then heal nightmare the same amount.
Slow attack 2 (nightmare's blast): range 0-2, 1+x dice, dark, etheral, X = sleeping creatures within 1 zone of the Nightmare.
The vampiric effect may be a little unnecessary as its a cantrip and 6 damage is a pretty easy kill, it might make more sense for it to just get recast... so keep the mana in the 10 range, but leave it as a little fragile.
Mass sleep might be too powerful combined with the blast, but I wasnt sure if a single sleep was sufficient?
The creature still has quite a lot of flex, but against a solo buffed mage has little it can do, so isnt a guaranteed play.
i don't like:
that it needs cards to cast sleep
that it changes the rulles about sleep (doesn't normally looses the tokens when damaged... and what about the directs damage it inflicts?)
i like:
that the power of the blast depends of the number of the sleepers
that it can teleport
-
This is all I can think of!
Dont worry, i have same mind block. On second place is neighbours kid :)
To be contributive,
Nightmare should just take advantage of sleep tokens, not cause them. I am not sure but a good nightmare never put me to sleep latly :)
No Etheral, No Upkeep, just Resilient or Defense 5+
Two attack bars.
1. X attack dice with Stun or Daze chance
2. 0 attack dice - Tainted 1+ - second attack can be used only on creatures with psychic condition or spell on them.
I like things simple :)
-
i don't like:
that it needs cards to cast sleep
that it changes the rulles about sleep (doesn't normally looses the tokens when damaged... and what about the directs damage it inflicts?)
i like:
that the power of the blast depends of the number of the sleepers
that it can teleport
I wasn't thinking that it needed the cards to cast the spells, but it had the ability to cast those spells intrinsically. I'm leaning to it having both + the built in channeling. I think both cost enough that they're not making the creature over powered and it would need the extra mana generation to be viable.
I don't think the proposition is to change the rules for sleep, but to allow sleep tokens to stack, so a creature is 'more asleep'. Of course if it strikes a creature then it wakes up.... ahh do you mean the indirect damage at upkeep? I see your point. Like I said, I think the vampiric trait is cool but not essential. As long as its easy enough to get out again, then being a bit fragile is fine.
-
Xanth Nightmares did cause dreams/sleepiness (kinda)... so its not a totally new meme.
It feels like you're proposing a totally different creature... which isn't a problem, just doesnt seem a refinement and more a counter offer :)
This is all I can think of!
Dont worry, i have same mind block. On second place is neighbours kid :)
To be contributive,
Nightmare should just take advantage of sleep tokens, not cause them. I am not sure but a good nightmare never put me to sleep latly :)
No Etheral, No Upkeep, just Resilient or Defense 5+
Two attack bars.
1. X attack dice with Stun or Daze chance
2. 0 attack dice - Tainted 1+ - second attack can be used only on creatures with psychic condition or spell on them.
I like things simple :)
-
Yup. When everyone is making wedding cake, i am making morning bread :)
-
Yup. When everyone is making wedding cake, i am making morning bread :)
Good to be prepared for when the wedding guests wake up hungover and hungry :)
-
Maybe we could explore a Terror ability which somehow can be linked both to a Nightmare and a force attack/ability.
Something like: X dice for every inactive action marker in the arena.
-
Well that's interesting...
Something like: X dice for every inactive action marker in the arena.
That has a unique feel to it. What if you made an invisible creature with that ability...
-
Invisible creatures (like the Stalker) is only able to target at the end of the round, if played as it should. My thinking was that if a creature had the Terror ability your opponent must make a choice; act on it at once while it is still weak or face the consequences later in the round. If it were invisible the whole fun will kind of go away... Nice that you liked the idea though. :)
-
How about if you made it slow and lumbering, resilient so it can take a hit but is easy to run away from. Its terror attack should be a powerful zone based attack (its own zone, a bit like the earth elemental or even neighboring zones (slightly lesser strength)).
I guess I was trying to imagine a large scary creature that noone wants to be left close to near the end of the round as that's when it will be most powerful. You can try and swarm it to take it down, but theres a pretty good chance they'll die if you aren't successful. However, even if you take it down your worst dreams will come back to haunt you again real soon.
Would it work to make the attack compulsory? i.e. all creatures within one zone range take the pain? That way you can't use it to guard your mage, but its very effective anti swarm or can assist a swarm from another side of the arena.
-
Well that's interesting...
Something like: X dice for every inactive action marker in the arena.
That has a unique feel to it. What if you made an invisible creature with that ability...
It compliments the Stalker nicely. Stalker is best when the Forcemaster outnumbers the enemy (e.g. because the enemy is going solo). Forcemaster can act and then qc Jinx the opponent, and then the Stalker can attack last after the opposing mage must act.
+x dice for every inactive marker is best against several creatures, when you're outnumbered and can keep passing your activation. Invisible could work to keep it going, or possibly just obscured combined with some kind of movement ability.
It would also give the FM more reason to try running a few more creatures, if her own inactive creatures count.
I think you're right, that is a really interesting idea.
-
How about if you made it slow and lumbering, resilient so it can take a hit but is easy to run away from. Its terror attack should be a powerful zone based attack (its own zone, a bit like the earth elemental or even neighboring zones (slightly lesser strength)).
I guess I was trying to imagine a large scary creature that noone wants to be left close to near the end of the round as that's when it will be most powerful. You can try and swarm it to take it down, but theres a pretty good chance they'll die if you aren't successful. However, even if you take it down your worst dreams will come back to haunt you again real soon.
Would it work to make the attack compulsory? i.e. all creatures within one zone range take the pain? That way you can't use it to guard your mage, but its very effective anti swarm or can assist a swarm from another side of the arena.
As long as you don't give it unmoveable the Forcemaster should have an easy enough time getting it into position.
-
How about if you made it slow and lumbering, resilient so it can take a hit but is easy to run away from. Its terror attack should be a powerful zone based attack (its own zone, a bit like the earth elemental or even neighboring zones (slightly lesser strength)).
I guess I was trying to imagine a large scary creature that noone wants to be left close to near the end of the round as that's when it will be most powerful. You can try and swarm it to take it down, but theres a pretty good chance they'll die if you aren't successful. However, even if you take it down your worst dreams will come back to haunt you again real soon.
Would it work to make the attack compulsory? i.e. all creatures within one zone range take the pain? That way you can't use it to guard your mage, but its very effective anti swarm or can assist a swarm from another side of the arena.
How about a combination of traits like - Incorporeal, Resilient, and Obscured.
The combination makes it difficult to target and tough to destroy. Psychic attacks would be a weakness since they still do critical damage to a Nightmare.
-
Incorporeal AND Resilient means that you only damage it 1/6 of the time without using an ethereal attack. That's a really tough nut to crack...nevermind the obscured!
-
How could something been Incorporeal and Resilient at the same time thematically vise?
-
How could something been Incorporeal and Resilient at the same time thematically vise?
a very sticky fog?
-
A thing is sure, the game need more Incorporeal creatures.
-
Ability -> Sweet Dreams: Mana cost X, Range 0-2, Put a Sleep condition marker on target. Mana cost is Target Level + 3 mana.
Attack-> Tainted Nightmares: Range 0-2, 0 damage dice, effect die 7+: Tainted
When you make the above attack, add 6 to the effect die if the target has a Sleep condition marker.
-
Ability -> Sweet Dreams: Mana cost X, Range 0-2, Put a Sleep condition marker on target. Mana cost is Target Level + 3 mana.
Attack-> Tainted Nightmares: Range 0-2, 0 damage dice, effect die 7+: Tainted
When you make the above attack, add 6 to the effect die if the target has a Sleep condition marker.
This is a very interesting and a really cool mechanic, however much like the argument against Psychic Immunity, the same creatures in question also have Poison Immunity.
-
How could something been Incorporeal and Resilient at the same time thematically vise?
a very sticky fog?
Marvel Comics' The Vision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_%28Marvel_Comics%29) comes to mind.
-
Ability -> Sweet Dreams: Mana cost X, Range 0-2, Put a Sleep condition marker on target. Mana cost is Target Level + 3 mana.
Attack-> Tainted Nightmares: Range 0-2, 0 damage dice, effect die 7+: Tainted
When you make the above attack, add 6 to the effect die if the target has a Sleep condition marker.
They are cool!
What about this for an idea:
Since its seems like force abilities are in favour in here compared to psychic, maybe it should have one of each.
Attack -> Explosion from within: Range 0-0, X damage dice. Where X is [put what ever you like here; like X is equal the number of lumbering/psychic imunity creatures in the zone, or 2x(Sleep + Tainted markers), or the Terror effect described above]
Attack 2-> Tainted Nightmares: Range 0-2, 0 damage dice, effect die 7+: Tainted or Sleep
When you make the above attack, add 6 to the effect die if the target has a Sleep condition marker and don't remove the sleep marker. To add sleep marker pay level +3.
-
I'm watching all the ideas floating around, and I'm thinkn' I might make a few of them this week to show you just what I'm thinkn' about.
Aaron,
When you do this is it possible you make "real" cards then? Like how they would look if they were printed. I'm thinking like you did with the DawnBreaker's Choosen, but with added example pictures of how you view each one. For future polls that would be nessessary I think.
-
Sorry for clogging the thread with posts (but I really like the community part of this). [Here I would like to add the smiley which refers to us who don't like to add smileys into the conversation]
Now when it is set to be a level 4 creature, wouldn't it be nice to make one with low mana cost and low health? It would go well with a incorporeal nightmare.
Mana: 8
Health: 3
Cantrip, Incorporeal, Flying, nice attacks.
-
Now when it is set to be a level 4 creature, wouldn't it be nice to make one with low mana cost and low health? It would go well with a incorporeal nightmare.
Mana: 8
Health: 3
Cantrip, Incorporeal, Flying, nice attacks.
One Zap (or any other ethereal attack) and it's gone. You'll be down on actions and mana.
-
Now when it is set to be a level 4 creature, wouldn't it be nice to make one with low mana cost and low health? It would go well with a incorporeal nightmare.
Mana: 8
Health: 3
Cantrip, Incorporeal, Flying, nice attacks.
One Zap (or any other ethereal attack) and it's gone. You'll be down on actions and mana.
Make it 6 mana and 4 health then. You get the concept. If it is adopted it needs to be tuned.
-
8-10 mana and 6 health seems reasonable - posted by someone earlier in the thread. 6 health is only 1 good attack (if ethereal). 8-10 mana is about 1 turn, longer if its casting sleep from the mages pool.
I prefer the teleport to sleeping creatures for the nightmare creature than flying, a bit like the blue gremlin but no distance limits. But would need a way to lay down sleep if its to be any use.
-
8-10 mana and 6 health seems reasonable - posted by someone earlier in the thread. 6 health is only 1 good attack (if ethereal). 8-10 mana is about 1 turn, longer if its casting sleep from the mages pool.
I prefer the teleport to sleeping creatures for the nightmare creature than flying, a bit like the blue gremlin but no distance limits. But would need a way to lay down sleep if its to be any use.
A level 4 creature shouldn't be too easy to kill. Otherwise it will never make it into a spellbook. Too many other options for the spell points.
-
I'm watching all the ideas floating around, and I'm thinkn' I might make a few of them this week to show you just what I'm thinkn' about.
Aaron,
When you do this is it possible you make "real" cards then? Like how they would look if they were printed. I'm thinking like you did with the DawnBreaker's Choosen, but with added example pictures of how you view each one. For future polls that would be nessessary I think.
That is my plan. I've just been working on some more pressing design things over the last week. I'm hoping to pull a couple cards together this week and we can start narrowing our focus.
-
But balance that against the cantrip trait which does give it some legs it wouldn't otherwise have...
8-10 mana and 6 health seems reasonable - posted by someone earlier in the thread. 6 health is only 1 good attack (if ethereal). 8-10 mana is about 1 turn, longer if its casting sleep from the mages pool.
I prefer the teleport to sleeping creatures for the nightmare creature than flying, a bit like the blue gremlin but no distance limits. But would need a way to lay down sleep if its to be any use.
A level 4 creature shouldn't be too easy to kill. Otherwise it will never make it into a spellbook. Too many other options for the spell points.
-
But balance that against the cantrip trait which does give it some legs it wouldn't otherwise have...
Exactly! And it is what makes it so interesting.
If it also lack Legendary you could potentially have two or three in play. However it can not be OP.
To me I don't see an issue with such low health that it will have a chance to die by one ethereal strike. Let's face it, how often do you see ethereal blows? And if it is not, well then it won't die (most likely not even by two regular hits).
As said before. If we take this path, the mana health ratio needs to be tuned.
-
I don't have this concept down much - I'm not even sure why itd be useful, so might be a limitation rather than a power (like slow). But I was interested in the idea of a slow fade, like the Cheshire cat, or a turn to smoke style dracula etc. So for some element of the turn, the Nightmare isn't fully there, but it hasn't left either.
It probably makes more sense as a reverse invisible, normally the Nightmare is tangible, when it moves (using the proposed teleport to sleeping creature) it becomes intangible, flip the ready marker to track this - leave the Nightmare where it is for the remainder of this turn. During the upkeep phase move the Nightmare to a zone with a sleeping creature. If there are no sleeping creatures during the upkeep phase the dreamlink is broken and the Nightmare stays in its current zone and takes 1 direct damage.
It might be adding complexity for little advantage or value, but I sort of liked the idea. I also thought it would drive the people arguing about playing cards in the upkeep phase bonkers if a creature could move during the upkeep phase :)
It would give the opponent plenty to worry about, as if there are multiple creatures asleep, you don't know what to defend until the next upkeep and the move has resolved. On the flip side, its still in range and may be vulnerable, but its intangible now so may be harder to hit. It would make the ready marker teleport less powerful as the Nightmare isn't instantly safe, but still pretty strong against many attacks. I think the health would need buffing a little so the attacker needs to weight up trying to kill it outright with a strong attack, and the Nightmare fleeing in intangible form, or playing a less strong ethereal attack that can't be dodged but less likely to kill outright.
A variant was to play a token at the proposed destination, until the upkeep phase and the movement resolves the creature is in both zones and can target (and be targeted) accordingly.
-
But why would a dark undead creature have nightmares? I don't think we need to design this specific creature to solve the psychic gap. It doesn't feel like a nightmare should counter a psychic immunity creature.
Oh, I agree to this so much!
Why do we try to fill a gap for a specific Mage? Isn't it obvious now when we choose the nightmare that it should have some psychic effect? I think we fool ourselves if don't do this thematically. We had the option to do something else, but nightmare it is.
That's par for the course....The Warlock has a thousand creatures and the FM 3 with none being really useful. With that said, I am done here, have fun with this thematic but not very useable (i.e. playable for FM) creature.
Yeah, well, that's the problem when you start with the "fluff" although you want to have a certain kind of "crunch", IOW: If the goal of this creature is to fill a currently existing "design hole" by having a certain kind of game mechanics or stats, you should have started by defining it's purpose/role.
At least that's what the D&D designers did when they started working on follow-ups to their monster manuals.
If you want to keep the Nightmare fluff despite that, how about the following:
Give it an attack that will transport itself and the attacked creature into a "nightmare realm" and a second (Force?) attack that it can only use while in that "nightmare realm" and only against the creature it affected with its forst attack.
I'd imagine that this first attack should work similar to [mwcard=MW1I01]Banish[/mwcard].
To return, the affected creature would either have to kill the Nightmare creature or ... something.
What I'm not sure about is the power level of such an attack. would this really be appropriate for a level 4 creature?
-
I think it's clear now that we can either fill a niche for the forcemaster or make a nightmare creature. Not both. Otherwise it's really stretching things. A force-nightmare doesn't make sense. Dreams are never telekinetic. Also, let's not confuse nightmares with grim reapers. That cantrip idea? That's not a nightmare. A nightmare creature should be mind/dark. If we want to change our minds about the subtype, I don't think it's too late to do that.
Now that I think of it, one potential way to make a fun nightmare is by giving a creature "sleepwalk". While the creature is sleeping, the nightmare can taunt it to attack a creature other than itself in the same zone. The sleeping creature will think it's attacking the nightmare but it's actually attacking one of its allies.
This might work better as a mind/dark nightmare incantation whose effect ends when the creature wakes up or the round ends. That way it's more distinct from mind control.
-
I think it's clear now that we can either fill a niche for the forcemaster or make a nightmare creature. Not both. Otherwise it's really stretching things. A force-nightmare doesn't make sense. Dreams are never telekinetic.
just picking one idea out at a time, why couldn't a mind/dark creature fill a niche for the Forcemaster? The Forcemaster is trained in the mind school. The invisible stalker is a mind school spell with a force type. I don't know if we need to make the FM a one trick pony.
I understood the gap we were trying to fill was a strong secondary creature that would compliment the FM nicely against different builds, particularly swarm.
That cantrip idea? That's not a nightmare. A nightmare creature should be mind/dark.
I don't think these ideas are exclusive. I hadn't really been thinking about the school aspect, just running with the flavour. I'd agree that the creature we're describing (most of us) should be mind/dark.
Cantrip itself doesn't make the creature a nightmare, no more than it makes Galvitar a nightmare (although it sort of does). Its the idea of a creature you destroy/wake up from that keeps coming back... something vague and ethereal (not as a game term) that is difficult to erase from your mind/game entirely. Cantrip does this nicely.
I do think your 'Friends to foes' incantation is cool too. It would be sweet to be able to reveal it as they declare attack, or just before resolving damage...the enemy you saw before your eyes was really.... nooooooooo.....
-
just picking one idea out at a time, why couldn't a mind/dark creature fill a niche for the Forcemaster? The Forcemaster is trained in the mind school. The invisible stalker is a mind school spell with a force type. I don't know if we need to make the FM a one trick pony.
I understood the gap we were trying to fill was a strong secondary creature that would compliment the FM nicely against different builds, particularly swarm.
I think what Vulcan was trying to point out is that the two major weaknesses of the Forcemaster are a lack of any decent creatures, and psychic-immunity. It is absolutely possible for a dark/mind nightmare creature to be a decent creature choice for the Forcemaster, but it is VERY awkward to try to design one which doesn't rely at all on psychic abilities or attacks due to its theme. Nightmares are traditionally thought of as purely mental phenomenon. To be honest, force creatures sound like they would fit much better under mind/war or mind/nature than mind/dark. But, people voted for a mind/dark nightmare creature, so now the community has to try to design one while still helping out the Forcemaster.
Mentioning swarm builds did actually give me an idea, though. We could design a creature which scales off of the number of surrounding enemies.
Name: Nightmare Phantasm
Cost: 16
Level: 3 mind & 1 dark
Armor: 0 (incorporeal)
Health: 8
Attacks: quick action, 3 dice, ethereal / full action, 3 dice, sweeping, ethereal
Abilities: incorporeal / non-living / at the beginning of its activation, this creature may pick a zone bordering its zone and push all creatures from that zone into its zone. For each enemy creature in its zone, this creature gains health +2, melee +1, and reconstruct +1.
It should still get wrecked by ethereal or strong single monsters, but I could totally see that making players wary against blindly swarming against a Forcemaster. At the very least, it should force some scattering and tactical positioning from such builds.
-
I don't really get your reply, mind is fine for the forcemaster, the invisibile stalker is mind school. I'm not sure what other school force is referring to, I understood it was a subtype, like animal, demon etc.
So Mind/Dark gives the creature a lot of flexibility that doesnt have to rely on psychic only. Basically an invisible stalker that throws out curses like bees poo honey would be a mind/dark creature that fits the bill...
This isnt a comment on your concept, just the concern that we can't address the Forcemaster gap with a nightmare themed mind/dark creature.
-
I don't really get your reply, mind is fine for the forcemaster, the invisibile stalker is mind school. I'm not sure what other school force is referring to, I understood it was a subtype, like animal, demon etc.
So Mind/Dark gives the creature a lot of flexibility that doesnt have to rely on psychic only. Basically an invisible stalker that throws out curses like bees poo honey would be a mind/dark creature that fits the bill...
Force and Psychic are both sub-types of the Mind school (similar to how acid and hydro are 2 sub-types of the Water minor school). The problem is that a lot of creatures possess Psychic Immunity, which makes all Psychic type attacks and spells useless against them. For example, the [mwcard=FWC12]Psylok[/mwcard] creature can't affect Psychic Immune creatures because its only attack has the Psychic sub-type. That creature represents a full 33% of the Mind school's current creature pool. Therefore, some people want a creature for the Forcemaster that isn't countered by Psychic Immunity.
The problem is that Mage Wars tends to follow theme extremely well. In general, everything does exactly what you'd expect it to do. Why can the [mwcard=MW1C26]Necropian Vampiress[/mwcard] fly during its activation? Because a lot of vampire myths claim vampires are capable of limited flight. Why does [mwcard=MW1C29]Redclaw, Alpha Male[/mwcard] buff up surrounding wolves? Because wolves usually travel in packs, and the designers wanted players to mirror that through gameplay. There are a ton of examples of this stuff.
So what do most people think of when they imagine a nightmare creature? I'd bet they usually think of psychic abilities. Take Freddy Krueger from A Nightmare on Elm Street: he can usually only injure/kill people in their dreams, and only because he's feeding off their emotions. If, hypothetically, he was tasked with killing a robot in one of his movies, do you think he'd be very effective at it?
That basically describes the situation. Some people want the creature to be useful and fill a niche for the Forcemaster, but it's difficult for that to happen while the card still stays true to its theme.
-
But this is a mind + dark creature... I mean ... hmm not sure if I'm getting the analogy quite right here, but baseball bats are so ubiquitously represented for violence that if you saw someone swinging one in a dark alley you wouldn't only think they're after some late night ball... that doesn't mean baseball bats cant be used for games.
Anyway, if the card art showed a nightmare/dark horse shooting dark lightening from its eyes, I think people would get the idea, or ghost horse teeth to nads +5 dice and all male creatures in the zone are stunned when it happens - a little bit psychic and a little dark.
I agree that we wan't something thematically consistent, but its two schools, so why just focus on one element?
-
I am skeptical that the forcemaster is really in such dire need of creatures. She works really well even without many options for creatures, and psychic immunity can be overcome by either using force hold (if you plan to win earlier in the game), essence drain (if you want a longer game), or simply put enough attack dice on enemy Mage or defensive things on yourself that you can afford to ignore the big nonliving creature. She already has excellent anti-swarm tech.
As for the creatures she already has, thought spores will do amazing with blur or the enchants from academy. Invisible stalker costs 15 mana is 7 life and is incorporeal. It takes 3 arcane zaps to kill it on average or two pillars of light on average). This might be fixable with card support. I'm not sure how to solve this without errata to the stalker. Thinking a low cost conjuration similar to raincloud would be nice.
As for psylok, I do not yet see a viable way to use them.
-
Was it dire need or something that seemed a fun idea 7 pages and 2 posts back?
-
I am skeptical that the forcemaster is really in such dire need of creatures. She works really well even without many options for creatures, and psychic immunity can be overcome by either using force hold (if you plan to win earlier in the game), essence drain (if you want a longer game), or simply put enough attack dice on enemy Mage or defensive things on yourself that you can afford to ignore the big nonliving creature. She already has excellent anti-swarm tech.
agreed!
if the fm had a creature-way in addition to all her non-creature ways, we would have create a new wisard problem...
and about the to nightmare styles, the problem is that we voted in another post and the nightmare won... but... I voted clearly for a psychic-nightmare, others seem to have voted for a force-nightmare, an now we should vote again!
-
I am skeptical that the forcemaster is really in such dire need of creatures. She works really well even without many options for creatures, and psychic immunity can be overcome by either using force hold (if you plan to win earlier in the game), essence drain (if you want a longer game), or simply put enough attack dice on enemy Mage or defensive things on yourself that you can afford to ignore the big nonliving creature. She already has excellent anti-swarm tech.
agreed!
if the fm had a creature-way in addition to all her non-creature ways, we would have create a new wisard problem...
and about the to nightmare styles, the problem is that we voted in another post and the nightmare won... but... I voted clearly for a psychic-nightmare, others seem to have voted for a force-nightmare, an now we should vote again!
LOL. That might be a good idea. Maybe we should have discussed the card as a whole before deciding the specifics of each part one at a time...
-
Ability -> Sweet Dreams: Mana cost X, Range 0-2, Put a Sleep condition marker on target. Mana cost is Target Level + 3 mana.
Attack-> Tainted Nightmares: Range 0-2, 0 damage dice, effect die 7+: Tainted
When you make the above attack, add 6 to the effect die if the target has a Sleep condition marker.
This is a very interesting and a really cool mechanic, however much like the argument against Psychic Immunity, the same creatures in question also have Poison Immunity.
So what? There need to be a counter to it.
-
I think it's clear now that we can either fill a niche for the forcemaster or make a nightmare creature. Not both. Otherwise it's really stretching things. A force-nightmare doesn't make sense. Dreams are never telekinetic. Also, let's not confuse nightmares with grim reapers. That cantrip idea? That's not a nightmare. A nightmare creature should be mind/dark. If we want to change our minds about the subtype, I don't think it's too late to do that.
Now that I think of it, one potential way to make a fun nightmare is by giving a creature "sleepwalk". While the creature is sleeping, the nightmare can taunt it to attack a creature other than itself in the same zone. The sleeping creature will think it's attacking the nightmare but it's actually attacking one of its allies.
This might work better as a mind/dark nightmare incantation whose effect ends when the creature wakes up or the round ends. That way it's more distinct from mind control.
I want to disagree about that Cantrip is not a nightmare... It would be named "Recuring Nightmare" :P
-
I think it's clear now that we can either fill a niche for the forcemaster or make a nightmare creature. Not both. Otherwise it's really stretching things. A force-nightmare doesn't make sense. Dreams are never telekinetic. Also, let's not confuse nightmares with grim reapers. That cantrip idea? That's not a nightmare. A nightmare creature should be mind/dark. If we want to change our minds about the subtype, I don't think it's too late to do that.
Now that I think of it, one potential way to make a fun nightmare is by giving a creature "sleepwalk". While the creature is sleeping, the nightmare can taunt it to attack a creature other than itself in the same zone. The sleeping creature will think it's attacking the nightmare but it's actually attacking one of its allies.
This might work better as a mind/dark nightmare incantation whose effect ends when the creature wakes up or the round ends. That way it's more distinct from mind control.
I want to disagree about that Cantrip is not a nightmare... It would be named "Recuring Nightmare" :P
That might work. I stand corrected. Recurring nightmares are either bad omens or say something significant about what the person who keeps having them is thinking/feeling. So dark and mind right there. Maybe it gives a fear effect like helm of fear does for the warlock. Make the fear effect be like a daze, but on a 9+ effect roll, instead of 7+, cancels attacks made against it if effect die rolls below the threshold number, and does not affect defenses. If there are no sleeping creatures in play, he's destroyed. That means that if the enemy summons no nonmage creatures, he's pretty useless, but non-mage living creatures when they awaken will have to get past a daze roll and a fear roll to attack the recurring nightmare. The nightmare should have low life to compensate for this. I'm thinking 7 life incorporeal, like the stalker. His fear effect should make it harder to attack him, and if there's some sort of terrain spell or a moving zone exclusive that gives an AoE that helps the stalker, such a spell would probably help him too.
I'm thinking either a moving terrain or a moving zone exclusive conjuration with an AoE like Raincloud would help. The funny thing is, raincloud does give him acid -2 and flame -2 and allows him to have his burn conditions removed. He even gets the regenerate 1 trait but it doesn't do anything because he's nonliving and therefore can't heal. I think if there was a way to protect him from light attacks or lightning attacks, that would be great. Really all that you would need is to protect him from lightning somehow. As for light, that can be taken care of by using an agony or something else that lowers attack power, since ranged light attacks usually aren't that powerful, and the forcemaster has plenty of good ways to take care of creatures with light attacks.
-
Maybe it is time for Aaron to collect all our comments, with or without the nightmare aspect, and create some example cards we can base our future discussion around.
Right now it seems like we are a bit stuck. Psychic or Force based nightmare, or not a Nightmare? Forcemaster aid or not? Big body or ability speced? Cantrip, Incorporeal, other? Level 4 or maybe lower? Anti-psychic or theme based?
Personally I think we have made quite a lot of progress since the last poll, so everything we voted for before could possibly be tweaked a little.
-
I do think now is the time to make some of these ideas and see them "in action". I'm working to make time where I can do just that.
-
Ah, the pleasures of designing something by committee ;)
-
No Dota players here? ::)
(http://dotageeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Bane-Elemental-Dota-2-5.jpg)
Some ideas working with sleep, but also affecting the enemy mage:
When Nightmare is in play, ending sleep inflicts 3 dice of direct damage to the creature that ends the sleep.
When sleep is ended through any attack, the sleep condition changes onto the attacker (If the creature cannot receive sleep, it gets dazed).
As a quick action, Nightmare can end sleep without any of the above effects (as well as the Daze condition).
As a full action, Nightmare can flip the action marker of a non-mage (enemy?) creature in its zone.
-
Shadow demon
mind level 2 & dark level 2
range 0 - 2
15 mana
(http://www.zelda.com/hyrule-warriors/img/dlc/shadow-link-grad.png)
Life -
Armor -
Melee -
Cantrip
When shadow demon enters play it gains Life, armor, and all trait and attack options attached to a creature in its zone. Shadow demon cannot have enchantments attached to it.
"My greatest challenge was to overcome myself." - Akiro
Ok I like this, however however how about make this a Doppelganger instead, in the mind school, that requires the casting mage to have a copy of the card and this card goes behind, like an enchantment, and it is the only way to by pass legendary, epic etc. This means that Forcemaster can have creatures, but they are copies of your Creatures.
-
I'm actually making a few of the concepts today. Hopefully they turn out well.
-
Well, i figure you guys have been waiting long enough, so I'll just post things as I make them. It's probably going to be pretty sporadic. But here across the next few days we should see some of these ideas take shape. The first one is kinda a crazy Idea I had while watching all the ideas you guys came up with. Yes, it's psychic, but it's also clearly meant to eat your opponent's brain. And just to be clear this is an idea, it is not balanced. Enjoy.
-
Well, i figure you guys have been waiting long enough, so I'll just post things as I make them. It's probably going to be pretty sporadic. But here across the next few days we should see some of these ideas take shape. The first one is kinda a crazy Idea I had while watching all the ideas you guys came up with. Yes, it's psychic, but it's also clearly meant to eat your opponent's brain. And just to be clear this is an idea, it is not balanced. Enjoy.
I'm not entirely sure what this idea is supposed to be, unless it is supposed to just be a more powerful replacement for the invisible stalker whose attack also happens to be psychic.
-
Here is that nightmare eater idea. As I said before he's in no way balanced right now. The cool thing he can do right now is put a Mage to sleep.
-
Well, i figure you guys have been waiting long enough, so I'll just post things as I make them. It's probably going to be pretty sporadic. But here across the next few days we should see some of these ideas take shape. The first one is kinda a crazy Idea I had while watching all the ideas you guys came up with. Yes, it's psychic, but it's also clearly meant to eat your opponent's brain. And just to be clear this is an idea, it is not balanced. Enjoy.
I'm not entirely sure what this idea is supposed to be, unless it is supposed to just be a more powerful replacement for the invisible stalker whose attack also happens to be psychic.
Look at the new part. The thing I thought was interesting was using the dissipate as it's "hit points" instead of traditional life. But clearly, that's not gotten through. It's all good. I'm going to try and work through a couple of the other ideas today as well.
-
very interesting:
Nonliving creatures treat (NAME) as Invisible.
What happens if it attacks a non-living creature?
-
Right now, I would say nothing, though I'm noticing that I forgot to make the normal attack on it psychic. Oh well. I can fix that after lunch, however maybe this could work for the creature? Obviously we don't want something that just eats nonliving creatures without recourse, even though it would be slow.
-
Last one for today. I made a concept of the force knight. He's meant to make those around him weaker, and he feeds off their weakness. That's what the daze mechanic is meant to do. I'll be back tomorrow with some of the other ideas. Feel free to discuss. if you feel that these ideas are way off base just let me know, this is meant to represent what you all want.
-
Last one for today. I made a concept of the force knight. He's meant to make those around him weaker, and he feeds off their weakness. That's what the daze mechanic is meant to do. I'll be back tomorrow with some of the other ideas. Feel free to discuss. if you feel that these ideas are way off base just let me know, this is meant to represent what you all want.
"Nightmare Knight"? This should obviously be called Knightmare.
Also, why do all of these have the Force subtype? Psychic seems more appropriate (at least for some of them).
-
I thought the middle one had no subtype. And this is why i've been wanting to make these guys, so that we can fiddle with them and make them what you all want :)
-
Last one for today. I made a concept of the force knight. He's meant to make those around him weaker, and he feeds off their weakness. That's what the daze mechanic is meant to do. I'll be back tomorrow with some of the other ideas. Feel free to discuss. if you feel that these ideas are way off base just let me know, this is meant to represent what you all want.
To tidy up the text of Nightmare Knight:
"All creatures in the same zone as [Name], with Daze condition markers upon them, may not remove any Daze condition markers after acting, unless they hit name.
When a Daze counter is removed from a creature in the same zone as [Name], [Name] may Reconstruct 2 damage."
Also change the subtype to soldier. This then gives the war mages more creatures and is consistent with Brogan and the Knight of Westlock.
-
Change to soldier or add soldier? Adding the soldier would be consistent with Brogan and the Knight of Westlock.
-
Nice to finally see some samples of our ideas! Keep'em coming.
My favorite so far is defenatly the Aaron-knight. It is a cool ability that you can attack it to reduce the time it is in play. One MAJOR drawbacks is that once again the wizard comes out with the upper hand with its zap since it is ethereal. Maybe that could be changed some how...
The knightmare is nice too. But upkeep creature doesn't appeal to my that much. It also need a AOE daze attack to be effective. The ability is really innovative though. Agree to soldier.
The eater is just...sorry...boring.. The sleep attack must have a much lower number to be useful. Would be more fun I think if there was a mana cost to sleep rather than the upkeep and low hit rate.
Idea could be to use like 4 attack dies to determine X+ for the sleep effect each time.
-
If a creature is incorporeal, with few exception, then it has Upkeep. It's mostly a function of the creature being incorporeal.
-
First off, I haven't read the entire post, so I'm sorry if this has already been touched on, but would it be possible to make the "dream eater" nightmare have the ability to cast the spell Sleep exactly as the rules would apply on the card itself, rather than the normal "this creature can cast (school of magic) spells"? This creature would probably be a familiar and generate its own mana. It would also have a full action arena attack where every sleeping creature in the arena takes two direct damage? Or maybe higher level creature would take 1 die of damage, so at the worst roll it would be the same damage, but also a chance to not take damage as well. Haven't thought of balance entirely, but just an idea.
-
Nightmare Eater
Wow this creature is ridiculous! A ranged 0-1 quick attack that has a 9+ sleep. This card would be really cool to pull out on a solo mage. Imagine putting the opponent mage to sleep and you have some good time to build up after that. Even if they get out of the sleep, you could just keep trying to whisper "sleep more" with the sweet dreams move. I think it would be funny for warlocks to consider exploding their own equipment to wake up :D I know it's not balanced right now but dang this is pretty crazy!
One question - Did we want this creature to not wake up the creature if it attacks it with it's dream eater move?
-
Force Nightmare
Man this creature is really unique. 5 dice critical damage unavoidable is insane! He's temporary with the dissipate, but you can get some serious damage out. It gives him a fun unique flair. I know it's not balanced yet mana wise, and no upkeep cost, but a fast high damage creature seems very mind school. I would love for the forcemaster to restore dissipate tokens kind of similar to [mwcard=MWBG1W01]Wall of Force[/mwcard] if possible. This creature begs to be attacked, which is exactly what you want when you have incorporeal.
-
Nightmare Knight
It's ok, we can always change the name :P This creature seems very knightish with its attack dice, and very mind with it's daze chance. I like that he feels like he will protect things in his zone. The ability for a daze to stick longer is really interesting. This buffs holy and lightning attack spells. Right now those spells seem less used, and this card would give a fun buff.
If you daze a mage and it doesn't go away after the action phase, they may question using an attack spell with the quick cast. Or if you force a creature to move out of the nightmare knight's zone to get rid of the daze, the ability might as well have been "cause creature to lose an action on the knight's 4 dice 5+ daze attack). Granted there are ways around it, but that usually takes mages actions :D
-
Some thought.
Nightmare - Aaron:
Love the idea to use Dissipate as HP. I think its attack should not be psychic since it is a Force creature. Psychic attack make it very bad if the opponent is guarded by a Nonliving, since the attack is not ranged.
Nightmare Knight:
I love Knightmare as a name :) I would definitely make this a Soldier to allow War Mages to have something cool if they want to pay the 8 SBP cost.
Nightmare Eater:
It is really weak imo. Even if you are really lucky with the yellow die, you will deal 5 dice every 2 attacks. This average 2.5 dice per attack, for a 14 mana creature with an upkeep of 2. Its attack either need to not break sleep or to be way more powerful against sleeping creatures. Also, its attack is total garbage against a Mage.
I would make the attack bar:
Quick, Melee, 0 red dice, yellow dice 4-11: Tainted 12: 2 Tainted Ethereal, Unavoidable, No Damage, +3 vs Sleeping.
That way it doesn't break sleep and it is useful against Mages except Necromancer, which is ok, since it would be unfair to have a creature that you can't defend against because none of your creatures can see it.
-
Change to soldier or add soldier? Adding the soldier would be consistent with Brogan and the Knight of Westlock.
Sorry I do not have the cards in front me, I would keep subtypes consistent and add any new ones as needed.
-
Its very rare you want to both spend an action on sleeping a creature and then afterwards spend more actions damaging it.
Its a weird boardcontrol strategy i doubt it will ever be worth to pursue except in very rare cases.
Right now its already painful enough to awake a sleeping creature. In fact it can be so difficult that i have lost several games because of it.
(Thoughtspore with sleep - oh i hate you.)
-
I believe the nightmare's attack would not wake up the creature?
I like the dissipation for life a lot but 9 seems too much. Essentially, you need exactly 9 attacks on it, which is a lot. :) Maybe 5?
I like them all, and don't really mind the upkeep cost for the forcemaster.
What is the nightmare part of the knight and the force nightmare?
-
I like the dissipation for life a lot but 9 seems too much. Essentially, you need exactly 9 attacks on it, which is a lot. :) Maybe 5?
It still has dissipate, so it would naturally lose a counter each round as well. That is why it has 9 counters.
-
I like all the creatures, but I don't quite see the connection to the ideas posted - laddin, do you want to talk to your inspiration/concept development a little?
-
I like all the creatures, but I don't quite see the connection to the ideas posted - laddin, do you want to talk to your inspiration/concept development a little?
I have the same feeling, these are interesting but but seems new ideas...
-
I really love the proposed implementation of the Force Nightmare (could probably use a better name though). It is thoroughly unique, seems very useful in certain situations (need to deal lots of damage quickly and don't care about long-term consequences), and isn't actually weak to ethereal attacks (you can only deal 1 damage to it each turn, so ethereal is overkill). It manages to be both frightening and balanced (at least conceptually): the enemy absolutely needs to deal with it or it is going to wreak havoc, but if the enemy can outlast it then he/she will have the advantage.
I'm not sold on the Nightmare Eater. The idea is fine, but having the sleep roll be a separate attack, need a 9+ (making it unlikely to land most of the time), and having +2 upkeep seems like overkill. That's going to end up making the creature rather ineffective, because it's going to have to waste 1-3 turns (on average) and 2-6 mana just to set up for a single powerful attack (which an opponent can prevent by merely attacking whatever you just put to sleep). It would be a lot more attractive if the sleep roll was combined with the attack, and only needed a 7+ (putting the odds at 50/50). That would certainly justify the +2 upkeep.
Nightmare Knight (Knightmare) is interesting. I like the idea of perpetual daze. However, wouldn't it be more thematic for the Knightmare to regain health when daze counters are not removed (as in, its ability is working) as opposed to when its ability fails? Or are you worried that would make the creature too swingy (either you are getting lucky and near invincible or you get unlucky and die immediately)? I know you said you haven't properly balanced these ideas, but you might need to buff it up a bit as well (and/or lower the upkeep cost). A Whirling Spirit, while lacking the daze functionality, possesses both significantly more health and a better attack than the Knightmare does (plus only has an upkeep of 1). I also think there's not enough incentive to play more than one of these at a time. If the Knightmare is supposed to be a solid mid-tier Mind/Dark creature (like the knights of other schools), then it should be designed in such a way as to encourage (or at least not discourage) players to summon more than 1 at a time. The passive ability of preventing the removal of daze tokens is the creature's best trait, and it makes no difference whether there are 1 or 4 of them in a zone.
All in all, some very interesting ideas. I look forward to seeing what creature ends up being the winner.
I like all the creatures, but I don't quite see the connection to the ideas posted - laddin, do you want to talk to your inspiration/concept development a little?
I have the same feeling, these are interesting but but seems new ideas...
I see some resemblance to past suggestions, but Laddinfance has clearly also modified and put new spins on them. I actually like that (it interests me to see different points of view on existing ideas), but I can understand if you feel differently. In general, when submitting ideas for things it is rare for those ideas to remain completely unchanged.
-
I like all the creatures, but I don't quite see the connection to the ideas posted - laddin, do you want to talk to your inspiration/concept development a little?
I have the same feeling, these are interesting but but seems new ideas...
The one labeled "Aaron" is absolutely a new idea. Just had an interesting twist I thought might work here. The other two are a bit of my take on the two core concepts mentioned early on. I was trying to do something interesting and thematic with them. Basically, I took the concept and I tried to put it together as I would. I've been trying to let the community drive this card as much as I can, but now we're to the part where my experience is key, so I thought I'd put a few of my thoughts / twist on these guys. I'm going to try and make a couple more of the concepts/revisit today. We'll see how that goes.
-
My 2 cents.
Force nightmare - Would be nice with more life. If we get a way to make a creature lose life, this creature shouldn´t die immediately. The design is very clean though, and it works against non-living resilient ;)
Nightmare eater - The idea of making two things at once (wolf spider) is okay, but very hard to balance correctly.
Nightmare knight - This is an okay card. I would rather see it make damage to other non-living creatures when daze is removed, instead of healing itself, but that is a design decision. One thing that I wonder is which part of this design is force?
-
Are we loosing momentum?
-
Last one for today. I made a concept of the force knight. He's meant to make those around him weaker, and he feeds off their weakness. That's what the daze mechanic is meant to do. I'll be back tomorrow with some of the other ideas. Feel free to discuss. if you feel that these ideas are way off base just let me know, this is meant to represent what you all want.
Looking at the card what is Dark about it? Other than its name? Dipping into the Dark school, I would think Rot, Weak and Vampiric (non-living so no), not Daze (that's more of a Light thing). If I were looking at this I would think: Weak. Though Daze could be Thematic too, but its not really "Dark".
-
Last one for today. I made a concept of the force knight. He's meant to make those around him weaker, and he feeds off their weakness. That's what the daze mechanic is meant to do. I'll be back tomorrow with some of the other ideas. Feel free to discuss. if you feel that these ideas are way off base just let me know, this is meant to represent what you all want.
Looking at the card what is Dark about it? Other than its name? Dipping into the Dark school, I would think Rot, Weak and Vampiric (non-living so no), not Daze (that's more of a Light thing). If I were looking at this I would think: Weak. Though Daze could be Thematic too, but its not really "Dark".
We were trying to avoid Psychic conditions and such, I figured along a similar vein we should avoid poison conditions. He still needs work, but right now I'm not sure what exactly to do with him.
-
I have the same feeling about the other two cards that you whipped up too. I always pictured some Dark condition as the Dark School component. Most of those are targeted to living though but I am fine with that. The attack itself would still work against the non-living and the Dark would be a buff against the Living.
-
Of all the conditions taint / rot and vamp I would say are the most darkish.
None of which work vs non living targets
which is why if it was a demon or other dark subtype that can be worked in and allow more flexibility on the mind aspect for the meat of the effects
-
We were trying to avoid Psychic conditions and such, I figured along a similar vein we should avoid poison conditions. He still needs work, but right now I'm not sure what exactly to do with him.
Stagger.
If the nightmare attacks a creature, add as many staggertokens (hurray! They stack!) as there are sleeping creatures in the arena. The nightmare then essentially feeds on the sleeping creatures (enemy and friendly) and channels that energy into attacks that can also affect nonliving or psychic-immune creatures...
Just another idea...
-
Laddinfance,
Maybe we could get an update where you are currently with all of these ideas? I think it would benefit everyone to keep the discussion a bit more focused and to know your ideas to go off of since you have a bigger role in its creation. And for those newer to the forum (such as myself) it gives us a place to start instead of looking back through the ten page thread. Lol.
-
That is a great idea. Right now I've just had a couple of things kick into high gear, but I will make some time this week to get everything caught up. on this thread.
-
Is it possible to get some kind of forecast when there will be anything new activity with this?
-
Is it possible to get some kind of forecast when there will be anything new activity with this?
The Dark, Mind mage works in mysterious ways. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ... (hearing Vincent Price laughter)
-
I'm at Bgg Con right now. Once I'm home we'll be moving on this more.