April 23, 2024, 04:01:57 AM

Author Topic: Defeating the swarm?  (Read 23094 times)

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Defeating the swarm?
« on: September 09, 2012, 06:09:02 AM »
I've played two games now (warlock v beastmaster & priestess v beastmaster), and both times I've fallen under a swarm sent forth by the beastmaster.  Im looking for specific weaknesses he generally suffers from and tactics and strategies you guys find successful.  Should I try to make it all the way over to his spawn zone and take it out?  I will probably play the priestess vs him again...what does she offer to counter and defeat the beastmaster?
Thanks in advance for the help. : )
Si vis pacem para bellum

Millertime

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2012, 09:59:44 PM »
I don't have a lot of experience with the game yet but I would think if you expect your opponent to bring a swarm of small creatures, go with zone effect spells like electrify. 9 Mana buys a lot of 4 dice attacks with great odds of Daze/stun effects. Put down some damage walls between you and if they come through, force push them back making them hit twice again before they can reach you. Put a gas cloud on the backside of the wall so they also take damage from that.

Klaxas

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1092
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 02:00:25 AM »
yes AOE spells and damage walls can help (with pushes and such)  taking out the spawn point can also help (or putting a gas cloud on the spawn point)  also a damage barrier (the circle of lightning) can help greatly.

as the priestess you could try throwing up some walls of stone so he has to come through one point, put some knights of westlock guarding that zone, and some archers in other zones shooting in, with clerics and your mage healing as necessary.  havent tried that personaly but it could work in theory if you can get it up fast enough.
Favorite Mage: The one I am using.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 03:23:00 AM »
Those are some good suggestions.  I hadn't thought of a gas cloud on the spawn zone or using walls to form a bottleneck.  I'll have to playtest those a bit.
Si vis pacem para bellum

SeanDeCoy

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 02:22:55 PM »
Another suggestion: You can go with the "single big creature" approach. While your opponent is sending out tons of weeny creatures, you summon a big bad creature and then use the rest of your mana to make him virtually unkillable (nullify, block, reverse attack, reverse magic, bear strength, bull endurance, cheetah speed, etc.) then he should be taking out the little creatures one at a time pretty easily. While your opponent is running out of creatures to send at you, your one creature is just destroying them.

Another option is that the best defense is a good offense. Sometimes against a swarm, I'll just totally ignore the swarm and start throwing fireballs at the enemy mage, throw my big creature at him, or attack him with a mage with tons of equipment. In this way, he now has to focus on defense, but generally if a player has put all they've got into swarming, they don't have any walls, or mana crystals, or equipment on them.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 05:13:18 AM »
Good stuff!  I've wanted to summon one of the big bad angels and "trick them out" since I first laid eyes on them..  Could possibly combine it with some bottlenecks.  Can't wait to test some of this stuff out.  :)
Si vis pacem para bellum

thuzl

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 08:52:35 PM »
Sean brings up a good point. Be aggressive.

The swarm is powerful, but slow. Time is what the swarm needs to build it's advantage. All those creatures come into play exhausted, i.e. a turn behind, whereas direct attacks happen now and on the next turn.

AoE attacks take out most swarm creatures in 1 or 2 turns.

Finally, the bottleneck strategy can work, if the other player is impatient and sends his creatures in one at a time. However, if he's patient, then you are just giving him the time he needs to grow the swarm, so be careful with that strategy.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 12:39:49 AM »
Quote from: "thuzl" post=1023
Sean brings up a good point. Be aggressive.

The swarm is powerful, but slow. Time is what the swarm needs to build it's advantage. All those creatures come into play exhausted, i.e. a turn behind, whereas direct attacks happen now and on the next turn.

AoE attacks take out most swarm creatures in 1 or 2 turns.

Finally, the bottleneck strategy can work, if the other player is impatient and sends his creatures in one at a time. However, if he's patient, then you are just giving him the time he needs to grow the swarm, so be careful with that strategy.


I will be playing the Priestess, she's not the most aggressive caster.  My understanding of her playstyle is basically attrition...i.e. "out last your opponent."  Not sure how well attrition can aggressively counter the swarm.  
...Possibly get a big creature out to harass the opponent, then turtle up behind some walls and poison clouds...maybe get a couple knights out, backed up by some clerics?  I dunno, seems like it'll take forever...
Si vis pacem para bellum

thuzl

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 07:58:16 PM »
You are right.

The Priestess does not have the arsenal of the Warlock, but she can be an effective offensive force. What she lacks in sheer power she can make up for in staying power. Her healing and protection spells allow her to hamper the enemy and stay in the fight, while she wears down her opponent.

Add in an Angel and some other support creatures/conjurations, and she might surprise you.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 01:49:22 AM »
Well...I played against the beastmaster again, and the Priestess got eaten alive by another swarm of teeth and claws.

I started off aggressive by summoning the big angel, Samandriel (sp?) and putting block, Nullify, and cheetah speed on her, then rushing the beastmaster in his starting space.  Things were going very well.  I was slaughtering any of the small level 1 or 2 beasts he was pumping out.  Then he summoned Tarok, The Sky Hunter w/ Bear strength.  My poor angel was quickly sent back to heaven.  Tarok is a very powerfull counter to flying creatures.  After she was killed my gameplan of using a big creature for interference while I built a good "fortress" quickly crumbled.  

I admit I made some mistakes... I should've healed her more than I did... the first heal spell I used only healed 4 damage (my dice rolls were pretty horrible all night).  I think instead of trying to attack Torok, I should have had Samandriel attack and destroy his Lair spawn point.  That thing is instrumental in getting a swarm going.  I also should've buffed the angel more with bears strength, regeneration, etc...

Hopefully I can get in another game this week and try again.  I'm not giving up on the Priestess until I get her to work!  : )
Si vis pacem para bellum

Klaxas

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1092
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2012, 02:54:09 AM »
from what ive seen its all pretty balanced overall you just have to find the right strategy and right nitch to do the job.  how much of a fortress did you get going while he was dealing with your angel?

also take a look at the grey angels for healing.  you can use them to attack and when you need them, (or when they are about to die) pop them for the healing.
Favorite Mage: The one I am using.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 03:56:52 AM »
Quote from: "Klaxas" post=1120
from what ive seen its all pretty balanced overall you just have to find the right strategy and right nitch to do the job.  how much of a fortress did you get going while he was dealing with your angel?

also take a look at the grey angels for healing.  you can use them to attack and when you need them, (or when they are about to die) pop them for the healing.


I had a pretty good amount of stuff out by the time she died...  I had the temple spawnzone, the temple that can make a ranged attack, the hand of bim-shall and a mana crystal, along with rhino hide on the peiestess, and the electricity damage shield and the crown of protection..  As for creatures i had 3 clerics out along with a knight iirc.  I wanted to put out some walls, but forgot to include them in my spellbook.
Si vis pacem para bellum

kamishev

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2012, 04:05:34 AM »
And after all that on the battlefield The Beastmaster was able to kill you ? With all the support from the card that you mentioned? What happened ?

Klaxas

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1092
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 01:56:57 PM »
the walls would have helped to create that chokepoint.  i hate it when i forget to add something i wanted too.

with the temple spawnzone i would have stopped at 2 clerics (enough to max out the pray on the temple) the clerics are good support but alone they die horrably you want to keep them out of combat as much as possible.  after you get your defencive force beefed you can summon more for healing.

the temple that makes the ranged attack im not sure i would have added to this build.  with that you want as many cheap temples out as possible to make that attack larger (when it starts shooting 6 dice damage its dangerous)  (this is another type of priestess deck you could try to beat the swarm) if you want the shooty temple in this deck, try not casting it till right before you want to shoot it so its a surprise.  like, throw out 5 other temples, then the beastmaster starts to run up, then boom drop the temple and shoot it (since it doesnt take an action to shoot)

with the things on your priestess i would wait untill right before you need them.  the damage barrier is nice but is useless untill you get attacked.  if you can keep her out of combat with other creatures thats better.  i would try to get the walls, 2 knights and 2 archers out asap.  the 2 knights to guard the chokepoint and 2 archers to shoot in.  then add to your numbers as you can.make sure you have healing for your knights and try to kill whatever enters the choke point the same turn it comes at you.  if he really throws a lot at once maybe try a surprise chain lightning spell, or a AOE holy spell

these are just my thoughts i havent actually tried this at all.
Favorite Mage: The one I am using.

paradox22

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • MOKAN Mage Wars
Re: Defeating the swarm?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 05:32:22 PM »
multi temples sounds fun, but aren't there only two included in the game right now?  The spawn point, and the ranged attack one?  don't have my cards with me atm.

Thanks for all the suggestions Klaxas
Si vis pacem para bellum