The future of Mage Wars

[Karadox]

Sailor Vulcan i think you are right in all what you posted.

I do not like to paint minis, i'm bad in it

[Sailor Vulcan]

Another thing I would like to say is that I think arcane wonders DOES care about their fan base. I've interacted with them before at cons as well as online, they've been very accommodating about sending replacement parts when someone complains about a missing or damaged game piece etc., when they realized the wizard was unbalanced and couldn't be rebalanced with new card releases they recognized that and errata'd him. In the past when people noticed problems in the rules they would listen and make a ruling. (Although nowadays it seems like zuberi is doing a lot of that for them using his superb and comprehensive understanding of the rules as intended. If zuberi says something about the rules, it's strong evidence of AW's intent with those rules.)

They do care about their fan base, they probably just don't have much time to talk to us because they have too much work to do. Like I said earlier, they're a very small company and they bit off more than they could chew.

I hope they are reading this thread, in particular my responses lol. I would really like it if they gave us some sign that they were still listening to us, since their engagement with the community has been almost non-existent lately. Although considering how much is probably on their plate, I'm not sure how likely they are to make reading this particular thread a priority, especially since there is a "Mage Wars is dead or dying" thread every year.

It's like the boy who cried wolf. By the time the wolf actually becomes close enough to threaten you, people don't believe you anymore.

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[exid]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

for sure, but minis players often love the mini (paint it, admire it, put it near theire bed,...), the same game withe paper cards doesn't target the same players.

I find it a bit strange and kind of annoying that people here seem to be ignoring almost everything I've said in this thread so far. I feel like I've raised a lot of valid points and put a lot of thought into my responses, and then people start talking about tomato throwing. I had to send a pm asking if the tomato throwing comment applied to any of what I wrote in this thread and I was told it didn't.

You are acting like this is an entirely new point that I just raised, but it isn't. Scroll up or look at earlier pages in this thread and you will see that I already said that they should have targeted arena towards a demographic of *minis players who were burnt out on collectible minis games and wanted to try something less expensive*. As for the painting minis thing, Arcane wonders probably should have allowed custom-mage art cards, or at least mage art cards that can be colored in, as well as a greater variety of card sleeves. Releasing more spellbook binders and other merchandise that can be used to customize one's collection such as the status boards was a step in the right direction I think.
And not all minis gamers are in it for the painting. Some just want to play.

I understand your point.
But I think MW would be a poor eyes and the hands experience for mini-players.
(and I like MW because I'm bad with paint! I came to MW throw "MtG with 2D experience")

[farkas1]

Hey I am listening to every comment people have said and sorry for not siting everything that is said here Sailor.  I get the mini comparison and do believe it is part of MW charm and possible downfall is that the game is neither minis or ccg or even a living card game. It is a combination of those that imo what makes it so great it takes the best parts of those and does not have the hassle of mini painting,  luck in card draw, or how much you need to spend to be competitive.    That being said MW is a hybrid game that may not appeal to those players who like the those same things that are missing from their types of games.

I agree that maybe if marketed like you said sailor with more specificity and a bigger push from the company it maybe would of reached out to different genres of gaming. 

I'm not sure how the landscape of magewars would of looked if academy came out earlier imo again I feel other card games would over shadow academy and for the same reason academy just being another card dueling game in the market. 

I have said this some where in a past post that academy had the worst possible time frame for coming out.  It came out around the time of the updated VS game and Ashes rise of the Phoenix born card game which were two other solid hyped games the same year academy came out.  Just really bad timing for AW and academy I think.


I was just throwing out ideas if it's bad idea that is fine.  Just looking for solutions to a problem I feel it is still not as bad as some have made it out to be.  But again I'm just satisfied and glass half full kind of guy.   



Good point Sailor The binders and more custom card creation is a good way to start and giving players a feel of customization.  Like this idea a lot.  The minis would of been i nice feature as well and maybe would of got those players into the game.  I believe Aaron talked about minis being made it just must of never worked out.


On a side not could we change banana stickers into tomato stickers 

[Karadox]

farkas1 you and Sailor Vulcan have good points.

I for me, i dont like minis for mage wars maybe for the Mages....

hehe yahh... Trow a tomatoe sticker at me!

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1698407/thoughts-next-expansion

Aaron Brosman
   
I'm almost 100% positive the next expansion will have Frost damage spells in it. It's something we originally meant to have back in Druid vs. Necromancer, but it ended up not fitting with the Mage we were making. However, unless something pretty drastic happens I'd expect Freeze/Frost Damage to be in the next set.

Posted Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:31 am
   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure most of you have already seen that.
As i know its the last info we got for an upcomming arena set.

[exid]

  frost damages is a scam an armor dealer invented once to make a beastmaster buy a new fur!

[Sailor Vulcan]

What best aspects of ccgs does arena use which you are talking about? Arena is basically just a minis game that uses cards instead of minis. If you switched all the  cards for minis and put all the card text in the rulebook instead it would be the same game  just harder to learn and more expensive. And it isn't merely "like" a lcg, Arena for all intents and purposes IS an lcg, but they don't call it that because FFG copyrighted the name of that distribution model, which is bs and I don't understand how that's even legal for them to do but whatever.

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[farkas1]

So i think other than the business model of ccg games they are very similar.  Both are usually a duel, both use cards and some symbols to designate card types, there is types of cards enchantments, attack spells, creatures, ect.  They both use colors to separate the card types.  they have a somewhat unique factor in some cards being labeled legendary, unique.  ect. 

LCG use this model too as far as formatting.  I agree with you Sailor, I think MW borrowed the mentality of their business model more from LCG.  It is not identical because LCG's still produce a crazy amount of expansions for the game and either new cards start to make older cards unplayable or the company phases out cards out of circulation or tournaments.  Both CCG and LCG business models are about creating vast content but they depend on the phasing out of cards to re brand the idea again which I feel takes advantage of the consumers in a way.

The biggest difference which i can see from mini war games and MW is that they just feel different.  Mini war games require a big portion of knowing the rules, the stats and I think in the end requires more fiddliness flipping through rules and text for units ect.  MW the card tells you basically what the stats are and no hassle flipping pages for rules or the specific creature stats.  By using cards it helps the player know what they need to know without flipping through a rule book and requires less mental energy remembering what the opponents creatures can do by having it right there on the card.   Obviously some of these things could be tweaked to ensure  ease of play.  but then they become different games really. 

[Sailor Vulcan]

To be honest, even though I said that I've been playing since 2013, the truth is that in the entire five years I've been playing, I've only played maybe two or three full games of arena offline outside of conventions. Every other time I played mage wars was either at a convention or on OCTGN. I've honestly tried to build the community here, but I've never had enough organizational skills nor regularity in my schedule to devote a couple of hours at the same time every week to promoting Mage Wars at an FLGS. The only other mage wars player who lives in my area is sharkbait, and although he said that he would get around to it eventually, that was a couple years ago and I've asked him several more times since then and he's still too busy and I kinda doubt at this point that he's ever actually going to start building the community here. And I honestly don't think I can do it on my own, if at all.

Arcane Wonders ambassadors are supposed to have a rewards system where they get extra credit in the online store for the amount of time they spend promoting arcane wonders products.

For almost the entire time I've been an arcane wonders ambassador in the last several years, this system has been temporarily unavailable. They said that they intended to bring it back once the new website was put up, that took a really long time and now they have had the website up for months and they still haven't brought the ambassador rewards system back. To be honest I don't think they are EVER going to bring it back, even if they think that they will eventually.

The fact is that there has been a mass exodus of players leaving this community over time, and that has drastically shrunken the online community to the point where it's practically a ghost town, arcane wonders has mishandled their marketing and become less engaged with the playerbase as it has gotten smaller and less active and they have become swamped with work that they have now been behind on for at least all year. While some places have managed to form lasting active mage wars communities, I suspect that they are not typical, and that there was a window of opportunity to form such communities at some point in the past and that said window has now passed.

I love mage wars, it is my favorite game ever. The fact that the online community has shrunken so much that I can't really play it as a hobby anymore makes me feel really horrible. I've put so much of myself into this game franchise and this community and for what? I'm going to probably have a mage wars shaped hole in my heart for the rest of my life. I feel like I wasted a bunch of money on mage wars products that I have never and will never be able to use outside of conventions, and I honestly feel like Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball with this game franchise. A part of me is strongly tempted to demand a refund, if not for all of the mage wars products that I have wasted my money on then at least a refund for the time I spent promoting their product which should have gotten me credit in their online store like they had promised. I'm trying really hard not to get angry and depressed about this.

A part of me wishes that I were the person in charge of arcane wonders, because that way I would be able to sell the mage wars franchise to a company that is better equipped to handle it, that way I would actually be able to keep playing the game as a hobby and not just at conventions or the increasingly rare occasion where there is someone to play against online. I urge Arcane Wonders to find another company which they can entrust to carry on the mage wars franchise in their place, a company that is better equipped to handle the task, which can bring out its full potential and make it really shine. And I urge them to start looking for such a company NOW while they are still afloat and still have time to look through all their options, before the playerbase shrinks any more than it already has.

To be honest I'm not confident that they are even actually paying any attention to this thread. I sent them a message through their online form requesting that they make a priority of looking at it, but I'm not sure if they got it. I hope they respond soon, even  it's just to say something like "we understand your concerns and we still care about our customers and we will post a more comprehensive response later". I think I'm also going to message them on facebook, summarizing the main points here with a link to the thread.

[RomeoXero]

Sailor jeez dude! You know Sharkey is active military right? He's not even in the country right now. And refunds dude? For real? I can buy a toaster and then return it cuz i dont make any toast with it. I get where you're coming from but you gotta calm down a bit man. Its gonna be alright.

[Sailor Vulcan]

Sailor jeez dude! You know Sharkey is active military right? He's not even in the country right now. And refunds dude? For real? I can buy a toaster and then return it cuz i dont make any toast with it. I get where you're coming from but you gotta calm down a bit man. Its gonna be alright.

Sorry for feeling too strongly about this, I guess? I don't think I overstated a single thing in my post. Everything I said in it is entirely accurate as far as I know. I know that sharkbait is currently out of state. Forgot that he is on active military duty right now. Has he been on active military duty for about the past couple of years though? I didn't think he was. I'm not saying that it's his fault that he isn't able to help with this, just that he isn't able to help with this and he shouldn't say he's going to do something if he's not actually going to do it. He's been saying that he would get around to this for about a couple of years now I think, and he never did. This isn't a matter of me being simply impatient, this is me giving up on things actually happening and being kind of fed up that he kept saying he was going to when he clearly isn't going to. If I sincerely believed earlier that a offline mage wars playgroup in an FLGS in my area was probably never going to happen, as I believe now, then I would not have spent so much money on mage wars products and perhaps not any money at all. Sharkbait telling me that he'll help build the community here eventually made me think that it was actually going to happen eventually, so I continued buying mage wars products.

And why exactly do you think that wishing I could get a refund is an overreaction? I honestly think that Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball on this game franchise and their mishandling of things in particular have made all of my mage wars purchases to be entirely worthless outside of cons. And I invested a lot of money on my mage wars collection and I've invested a lot of time and emotional energy into this community. I think I have every right to be upset about this, and I don't think I'm overreacting. The only reasons I'm not requesting a refund yet are 1. I think it's rather unlikely they'll be able to pay me back for it because they're such a small company and  2. I'm hoping they'll sell the franchise to another company that can handle it better, in which case I might actually be able to play it with people offline outside of cons. Although that is likely to be wishful thinking on my part.

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[Parliament]

I hope Mage Wars keeps being supported. I prefer Arena but like the Academy sets as well. From what I’ve heard quite a bit has been designed that is being playtested that has not been released yet. I remember listening to Colby Dauch speaking at a convention about Summoner Wars when it first came out and there were maybe 6 Summoners. He talked about how he had designed 16 different factions and there would eventually be second Summoners. It took time but eventually Summoner Wars released 16 different factions with reinforcements and second Summoners for each. I don’t think Summoner Wars has a huge community, even though it’s a popular game. At the time I heard Colby talk about that I wondered if his game was going to get to release all that content. My hope is that Mage Wars eventually releases everything that’s in the pipeline now and more. Here’s hoping the game continues to grow and expand.

[RomeoXero]

Welp i tried. Im outa this doom and gloom thread. Lol ima go be happy about something. Lol seriously tho, its a game. An awesome one but a slow growing one. Its my favorite game by far and that's a fact so ill continue to do whatever i can to help it grow where i can and i cant do any better than that. None of us can.
Heres to hoping you get what you want and everyone is pleased again. But i for one think its going just fine.

[Robert Geistlinger]

Well this thread has certainly been a doozy! I’m going to start off with a few quick facts, so everyone can see things from a bit different perspective:

1. More Mage Wars branded product has released from Nov 2016 to Nov 2017 than ANY previous year.
2. Arcane Wonders as a company is 3 official employees (soon to announce a 4th)
3. There are absolutely no plans to sell the Mage Wars license
4. Here is the convention schedule we’ve done the past few months:

Essen Spiele (Germany): October 26th - 29th
Unrivaled Tournament Finale (Las Vegas): October 27th - 29th
Southern Hobby Retail Expo (Tennessee): November 5th - 7th
BGG Con (Texas): November 15th - 19th
PAX Unplugged (Pennsylvania): November 17th - 19th
Dice Tower Cruise (Florida): December 2nd - 7th

To put things bluntly, I've personally been averaging about a week in-office between each show, so there hasn't been a lot of time to work on side-projects. The focus has been getting product made, making sure we're advertising games & expansions as they launch, and then moving onto the next game in the lineup.

The Dice Tower Cruise is the last show of 2017, and I will be in-office until the New York Toy Fair in February, and GAMA Trade Show in March. During the next few months I plan on getting things up-to-speed and moving forward with plans for 2018.


CONCERNING THE AMBASSADOR PROGRAM
This year we suspended the ambassador program while we updated the website, and have taken this opportunity to set up the framework to improve the program to better support our active ambassadors moving forward. During this time period, however, we have continued supporting our ambassador events; recent examples are the recent MACE event, and the events being hosted in the UK.

The new program will support ambassadors of Arcane Wonders products that are going out into their community or hosting events at conventions. We will have more information after the convention season is over, and we are in the offices, updates coming by the end of January.


CONCERNING THE SPELLBOOK BUILDER / APP
We’ve begun conversation with Grga and it is our current plan to use the SpellbookBuilder.com fan-supported platform moving forward. The goal is to provide all the image assets for all future sets to Grga for implementation. We will not be updating the other spellbook builder that has been hosted, it has already been removed from our current website. There has been lapse in communication here, that I apologize for, and I'll be re-initiating contact and making sure that Grga gets everything that is needed.

Unfortunately, the App has always been a major issue for us (outside the earliest parts of its implementation). We have learned a lot about how we are not an app company, we are a board game publishing company. The Mage Wars app will be removed from iOs and Android app stores in January, if not sooner.


CONCERNING UPCOMING SETS, MARKETING, ETC.
We have four (4) new Mage Wars Academy mage expansions planned for release in 2018. I'm not going to share what they are, or really anything else... but as soon as I have manufacturing confirmation, I'll be sharing a full-release schedule for 2018 (with dates for each upcoming product).

I don't have a ton more to share here, but I wanted to touch on a couple of items:

1. We approached the Arcane Duels team to do the previews and spoilers for Forcemaster and Warlord Academy expansions --we feel they did a tremendous job, and current plans are to have them do the previews and spoilers for the 2018 Academy releases (assuming they're up for it again).

2. We have a lot of passion for Mage Wars. It it the product line that got Arcane Wonders started as a board game publisher, and it will always have a special status for us. There are big plans and changes in the works for the future and we'll be having a lot more discussion about Mage Wars in 2018.

Now, I've got to pack for the Dice Tower Cruise because I fly out tomorrow! I'll keep an eye on here tomorrow, but after that, it's unlikely I'll be able to respond until I return on the 11th.

[Karadox]

Thanks for the Informations Tony

4 new Academy Mage is nice, but no new Arena Set in 2018?

Sailer i see it is very close to you, but i would never suggest it to sell mage wars to any other company or ask for a refund.
I have too much respect for the product of the idea of mage wars, and what I experienced with it.