Timing on Hellfire Trap and Caltrops Mangler in same zone

[Zuberi]

Isn't Teleport an Effect that bypasses walls and objects?

It bypasses walls and objects in between zones A and B, but not those inside of zones A and B. If you enter or leave a zone, even via teleport, you still cause all enter zone triggers and leave zone effects.

Perhaps we can clarify that teleport also cancels a previous attack trigger. That would support Shadow's description and provide more clarity around the concept of a 'trigger'.

That is true, but it has to be kept in mind what the ramifications of that would be. It would completely fly in the face of the rules on Damage Barriers currently. Sure, we could write out an exception to Damage Barriers, but I really don't like that nor see the necessity. It would just make the rules more clunky and convoluted. If people want the attack from Mangler Caltrops to be negated, then the easiest errata I think would be to turn them into a Melee Attack. I'm not sure why people have a problem with them still getting their attack though.

You did enter the zone. You had to set foot there in order to trigger these cards, thus you must have stepped on a Caltrop. You might have instantly been teleported when you set your foot down, but you were still injured.

[Zuberi]

Yes, if it moves after the attack began. However, movement before an attack was declared does not affect the possibility of being attacked. You can't cancel something that hasn't even started yet. And attacks start with the Declare Attack Step.

Then if the teleport is before the attack (so no attack is made at all) what are you arguing about?

The teleport is made before the attack, so it does not cancel the attack. However, the teleport is made after the trigger, so the attack still needs to be made. The attack has no range limitations, therefore the creature is still a valid target. Ergo, the creature still takes damage for the Caltrop that it stepped on.

[Laddinfance]

I'm going to find the solution to this question gentlemen. I'll be contacting Bryan about the issue. Hopefully, we'll have a firm ruling soon.

[sIKE]

I'm going to find the solution to this question gentlemen. I'll be contacting Bryan about the issue. Hopefully, we'll have a firm ruling soon.

This amazes me, gonna get a fast turn around on something that is obvious via intent (teleport cancels the attack) just that the rules are not quite in-sync. However the Warlord striking himself with his War Sledge (me thinks this is not the intent) we are told that rules, hit the road jack, we'll work on it later, maybe, if you don't forget. 

[Laddinfance]

 

I'm going to find the solution to this question gentlemen. I'll be contacting Bryan about the issue. Hopefully, we'll have a firm ruling soon.

This amazes me, gonna get a fast turn around on something that is obvious via intent (teleport cancels the attack) just that the rules are not quite in-sync. However the Warlord striking himself with his War Sledge (me thinks this is not the intent) we are told that rules, hit the road jack, we'll work on it later, maybe, if you don't forget. 

I won't forget about that either. In fact, I'll send that email in just a moment.

[V10lentray]

However the Warlord striking himself with his War Sledge (me thinks this is not the intent)

you can attack yourself?

"Why you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself?" - Older brother to little brother

[sIKE]

"Why you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself?" - Older brother to little brother

Being a big brother: ROFLMAO

[DaveW]

However the Warlord striking himself with his War Sledge (me thinks this is not the intent)

you can attack yourself?

The case under discussion was that of a Sweeping attack, such as on a War Sledge, and too few valid targets in the zone not counting the Warlord using the Sledge... the Warlord has to target himself instead of deciding that he wants to stop attacking. Strange, huh? It was in another fairly recent thread.

[kailas]

Any news?

[Laddinfance]

Yes, I actually have something on both of those a little later today. It's been a jumble this morning.

[Zuberi]

There were a couple of recent posts regarding Teleport Trap that reminded me that we never really heard back on this.

[Shad0w]

There were a couple of recent posts regarding Teleport Trap that reminded me that we never really heard back on this.

I had forgotten about this also.

[exid]

I'm affraid we have an unsolved problem here: Trap & caltrops mangler in the same zone.

1) Which one goes first?
I think the rules are clear if the player with initiative controles one and only one of them: he goes first. And if one player controles both I think he chooses.

2) If the trap was a teleport, does the Caltrops attack?
The question was about the target mooving befor the first step of the attack...

Any news?

[Halewijn]

Didnt read the entire tread, but the controller of the creature decides whenever there are timing issues. However, he cannot force you to reveal an enchantment thus even though the rules state this, in practice it is the controller of the enchantment who decides.

[exid]

Didnt read the entire tread, but the controller of the creature decides whenever there are timing issues. However, he cannot force you to reveal an enchantment thus even though the rules state this, in practice it is the controller of the enchantment who decides.

the controller decides during upkeep. this is not upkeep.

the trap and the Caltrops give no choice.
the enchantment is revealed and the Caltrops attacks. I think that if the player with initiative controles one and only one of them, this one will trigger first.

(if there were 2 non-mandatory enchantments, the player with initiative would have the choice to reveal his first, and then the opponent)

isn't it?