Forcemaster Builds

[Shad0w]

BTW I have gone entire match and not equipped armor. Do not use Vampirism till you have about 45-55% damage on you.

[paradox22]

Shad0w,

Whats you starting build look like?

Round 1- bimshalla +  bimshalla
Round 2 - Galvatar + bimshalla
Round 3- bear strength + dancing scimitar
Round 4- gauntlets + "a giant kick in the teeth to the enemy"!!!

With battle fury, that'd give you the following attack dice:

10 + 4 + 10 + 3 = 27 dice!

Add in a thought spore w/ invisible fist, and its 31 dice!

Is that about right?

How do you catch/tie down an enemy mage that runs from you the entire game...?  I don't see any forcehold, tangle vines or even cheetah speed in your build. 

[Shad0w]

Remember 2 things if they are running unless they are the BM they cant cast creatures, and unless they are elusive you hinder the other mage so you can Force Pull them back. The real lethality in this build is in the speed you can deal out the damage. I do enjoy watching people try to out run the FM.

If you look I have about 60-70 points to play with so you can easily swap in the tools that best fit your local meta. One of the things I have found is that if the other player has never played against this style build they try to go one on one and end up dead.

When looking to fight against a build like this you want to buy 2-3 turns so that you can summon some creatures.

[DarkForceMaster]

I rush them turn 3 or 4 so they can do that.

[Shad0w]

Shad0w,

Whats you starting build look like?

Round 1- bimshalla +  bimshalla
Round 2 - Galvatar + bimshalla
Round 3- bear strength + dancing scimitar
Round 4- gauntlets + "a giant kick in the teeth to the enemy"!!!

With battle fury, that'd give you the following attack dice:

10 + 4 + 10 + 3 = 27 dice!

Add in a thought spore w/ invisible fist, and its 31 dice!

Is that about right?

How do you catch/tie down an enemy mage that runs from you the entire game...?  I don't see any forcehold, tangle vines or even cheetah speed in your build.

If we use your opening
1: 20 Manna - 2 hands at 10 mana
2: 20 Manna -  Galv + hand at 16
3: 14 Manna - BS + DS at 8
4: 16 Manna - Gaunt at 8 (or use BF for the extra attack)

That was out of memory so may be a bit off By round 4 you should have 1 reactive spell like Seeking Dispel and a aggressive spell like battle fury (or if they started to place guards pick the correct force move for the situation. ) One of the things I added to this build and you should also is the boot that give a mage unmovable. You give them to the other player and repulse or force wave and the stay while everything else moves.

[Shad0w]

I think its a neat build!  The two biggest things I see that are different from other builds is the lack of Thoughtspores, or a way to gain Elusive (Falcon Precision / Evasive?) to get around mass Guarding.

A smaller query, I don't see any Nullify or other way to prevent your Enchantments / Equipment from being destroyed.  Do you find it not worthwhile to put in preventative measures?

Falcon Precision / Evasive =  I used to run both but I switch it up every week so I choose none of this week. I don't care about winning the league. Before I was going to Judge Origins I was going to play this style build so I wanted to see how my choice are different when I do not have access to the tools I want. I may be in a match with all copies of Falcon Precision / Evasive used up so then I need a new plan of attack. So I practiced playing without them. Yes it make it harder but I learn far more without them. They were a crutch and I forced me to play better.

[paradox22]

     one of the things I added to this build and you should also is the boot that give a mage unmovable. You give them to the other player and repulse or force wave and they stay while everything else moves.   

Great thinking, but wouldn't this make them immune to her innate force pull ability??

[Shad0w]

Yup you always have a cost for each action you take. When there is no risk to the reward is when thing become unbalanced. ( you can swap then with the basic boots if you need to pull them, or the better play is to pack teleport.)

[sdougla2]

Shadow, the thing that most surprised me about your FM build was the lack of Teleports. My FM build is pretty similar in terms of the core strategy, but I include Thoughtspore and a few other things. I don't have as much redundancy in terms of equipment, but I run Teleports, a few attack spells, and more control options.

I'll need to try playing without Falcon Precision/Mongoose Agility at some point to see how that affects my play.

I haven't ended up using Force Pull that much because I often use a Thoughtspore with Teleport for position control.

[baronzaltor]

I like to do something like:

1 Bimshalla+Bimshalla (and move) 
2 Battle Forge+Temple of Light (with a move and, fire Temple of light for 3 dice+daze/stun if in range)
3 Dancing Scimitar from forge, face down enchant of choice, pull and move as needed or double move, attack with scimitar.. fire from Temple of Light
4 Galviatar from Battleforge, quick cast battle fury.. attack,scimitar temple of light
5 Battle forge gives Gauntlets, Reveal Bear Strength if played on round 2.. quick cast a pull or battle fury
6 If there is an open zone, drop another Bim Shalla, otherwise whatever.  Start damage control.

potentially gives you (best case scenarios)
3d damage and possible stun on turn 2
3d+3d damage and possible stun on turn 3
6+4+6+3+3 and possible stun on turn 4
9+4+9+3+3 and possible stun on turn 5
10+4+10+3+4 and possible stun on turn 6

Those are attacks that assume you were able to battle fury and doublestrike.  sometimes you dont get the mana for a battle fury or the action for the sweep.. thats all just best case scenario.

Then as you move on from there battleforge continues to spit out Gauntlets, rings, armors or whatever your need and Temple of Light gives support fire.  I also like to drop a Thoughtspore with an Invisible Fist for a cheap additional 4 Damage Spam

[baronzaltor]

Yup you always have a cost for each action you take. When there is no risk to the reward is when thing become unbalanced. ( you can swap then with the basic boots if you need to pull them, or the better play is to pack teleport.)

You cant swap an opponents gear.
You can cast equipment on an opponents empty slot, but cannot cast equipment a location that is already taken on another mage. 
I presume that rule is there to stop me from constantly unsummoning an opponents weapons and wands by passing them an Ivarian Longbow to clear both hands

[Shad0w]

Like I said working from memory - 

BTW you can't "currently" swap the gear

[Shad0w]

Shadow, the thing that most surprised me about your FM build was the lack of Teleports. My FM build is pretty similar in terms of the core strategy, but I include Thoughtspore and a few other things. I don't have as much redundancy in terms of equipment, but I run Teleports, a few attack spells, and more control options.

I'll need to try playing without Falcon Precision/Mongoose Agility at some point to see how that affects my play.

I haven't ended up using Force Pull that much because I often use a Thoughtspore with Teleport for position control.

I choose to play without them for the past few weeks. In my tourney build they are going back in. I just needed to test some other options.

[sIKE]

Shadow,

I played the FM build you posted today, and won against a Beastmaster. Both newish mages for both of us so it took a bit longer to play than normal. I built the spell book this morning and didn't get to study it much. I was able to pull out a win late game. I ran into his swarm mid-game and he got me down to five HP left. I then put on the Regrowth Belt on, cast a Repulse which broke up his swarm. Right before and during that mid-game, I got Vampirism out, and Mordoks Obelisk and Suppression Orb. After the Repulse, I ran two zones away from his critters. He then moved his mage and hit me with a Tanglevine. The with three creatures out, I sucked his mana out from him. He could only move a one or two creatures each turn and in reality, they never were able to get back into the game. He moved his Beastmaster into his zone with me. He only lasted three more rounds. I just started wailing on him. Cast out the Dancing Scimitar, and used my last Battle Fury to take him out. I was very lucky between the Regrowth Belt (too counter the Rot tokens) and Vampirism I was able to finish the game in the high-teens damage. I missed a couple of my "go to" spells but it was nice playing out of my normal box and a win is always nice.

[jacksmack]

Shadow what counters do you suggest to that forcemaster strat?

I tried puzzling around with a wizard semi control that uses battleforge (just because i love this spell) on start square with harmonize on.

Depending on who wins initiative round 1 the following rounds will differ.

Anyway, its about using teleport traps, mana drains, mana siphon, maybe 1 wall of stone, huginn, the slow enchantment (on FM) and sorta keep building up while the FM is kept out of range until the wiz gains a big enough mana advantage + hugin disolves and dispells the FM etc.

Besides this the spellbook i made has a gorgon archer, alot of lightning attacks and a decent amount of equipment.

I am modifying my untested control wiz spellbook just because i realized that the current build i had was useless against such an offensive powerhouse that ignores upkeep for creatures and pay 1 mana when moving non mage creature etc.