beating wizard with FM

[sIKE]

If the Wizard has a Wizards Tower your Thoughtspores will be quite useless as he will typically cast the WT in his NC and keep his Wizard behind it. This means that you will need to bring your spores in range of the WT which will then blast them out of the sky with a Geyser or Arc Lightning.

In my limited experience playing the FM against Charmyna was to move in and try for a quick damage output to kill the Wizard as quick as possible. The longer the game goes the less the chance the FM has to win and that curve is very step after 4-5 rounds.

[Avarice]

Ty Sike. I ALWAYS play aggressive with her, regardless of mage. I know I'm on the clock and have to win b4 getting overwhelmed by creatures. You mind me asking how the first few rounds went, or what you opened with the first couple of rounds?

[sIKE]

I never had much luck against Charmyna with the FM. I mainly tried to get equipped up with Gav while running across the board and pulling the Wizard to me to beat up. This was right after CoK had come and the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] became the bane of my existence, so then it became an arms race, I put [mwcard=MW1E28]Mongoose Agility[/mwcard] on to ignore the Angel and he then he taught me the painful lesson of the [mwcard=MW1W04]Wall of Thorns[/mwcard] and  [mwcard=MW1I12]Force Push[/mwcard] *2 and a [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard]. Which now meant I needed armor which meant more actions before I went in to battle with the Wizard, which meant slow down (advantage Wizard), or a [mwcard=MW1J04]Battle Forge[/mwcard] build which didn't work, or just trying to live around the WoT Push, after several variants, I just shelved the whole FM build.

Now take that with a grain of salt, Charmyna gave me fits with the Priestess, Priest, Warlord, and FM builds. I would find an angle that caught him off guard and would swing things in my favor but his control/attrition builds in the end were just to much. To top it off the next build he would make would be even better than the last one as he would move things around and improve it. Matter of fact the Watergate Wizard build is partially in response to a couple of my builds and a Warlock w/ a Battle Forge + Curse build that he lost too (only once and I it was one of the 3 or 4 that he has lost out of couple of hundred games.).

[Avarice]

Thank you Sike. I appreciate your response. Next time I play, it will be a race to kill him before he gets his creatures. I'll try forge, thoughtspore with tele to pull him away from his gate. Use scimitar to get rid of voltaric shield, and thoughtspore with tele to control his creatures getting in range of my mage. Eh, anything is worth a shot I guess. Just a very difficult match up.

[jacksmack]

He will easily counter it with 1 teleport action himself, and then ur stuck doing nothing.

ie:

Your turn:
thought spore teleport wizard to FM.

His turn:
Move 1 and teleport 2.

Your turn:
FM runs 2.

[sIKE]

Now if you can get him with no armor a Wall of Thorn Push/Push. By Push/Push I mean during the final quick cast phase of his Initiative and during the First Quick Cast Phase of his initiative. If he is foolish enough to not armor up at that point you should be in a position to use the Force to bring him to you and use your Full Attack to finish him off. If you have a Thoughtspore with Battle Fury for your Mage or Surging Wave/Jet Stream, back through the wall you can spike a lot of damage on him and if you don't finish him off he will be making great and fast changes to his game plan at that point and you should continue to press your advantage. Double Fire ball or Dissolve and Push though WoT again.

You will only get away with the WoT trick a couple of times before the Wizard stacks armor with a Battle Forge build. Take a peek at the Fabled Watergate Wizard Build to get an idea of what there is to counter it. It is a bit dated and would expect him to update several of these builds when he get the time too as he now has both DvN and FiF stuff to add into the mix.

[Avarice]

How would I be able to pull that off? Use qc to spawn wall, then pull him through with thoughtspore force push? How would I get to shove him back then?

[sIKE]

You would do the Wall at the end of the Actions Phase and then the Force Push after the mages action or during the Final QC Phase and then the second Push (now your initiative) during the First Quick Cast Phase of the next round.  The point is that he is unlikely and typically unable to respond by performing the actions this way. If you have a Surging Wave on a Wizards Tower or Thoughtspore you can get (with a good effect roll giving you a Push effect) 30 dice of damage in row with practically no response, and yes I have gone from 0 damage in one round to death in the next round. Painful lesson to learn.

[Schwenkgott]

Don't waste your mana on things like Charm or Mind Control. It's a waste of action.
Try the following:

Deploy Forge with Defense Ring, Reflex Boots and all the melee stuff you need to hit very hard (scimitar, galvitar, gauntlets)
Deploy Bim-Shalla
Deploy the Temple of the Dawnbreaker, so you can reroll any defensive action
Buff yourself with Bear Strength and take a Forcefield with you for emergency situations.
Prepare some dispels for the enemies agony and enfeeble.
Protect your gear with Armor Ward and your enchantments with Enchanters Wardstone. Great synergy together!
Use Regrowth.

With your heavy buffs it should be easy to defend yourself and kill a gorgon archer every round. You have to melee attack every round, so you use an action with no mana cost, the mana saved you may spend with forge or your quick cast. Try to stay in the same zone to evade beeing attacked by them. Simply kill the archers and the towers faster as he can spawn them (with piercing 2 or double strike, that should be no problem). Always attack where it hurts most, where you can deal the best damage.

[Avarice]

Ok, thank you Sike and Schwenk. In theory Schwenk, after all the gearing up with conjurations and enchantments you will be a formidable beatstick. However, the longer the rounds go, especially with wizard, less likely you will win. I'm no pro by any means, but all my matches that I've won was by hyper aggressive play style. I have to be swinging away on mage by round 4 the latest, and I've had at least a stalker or thoughtspore to join me. The only problem when I played wizard, was his tele traps and eagleclaws which slowed me down immensely. Plus, I wasted 17 mana on a grizzly, since he can wait till final qc to zap my stalker and kill it in 2 rounds. Shenck, how would your first 4 rounds go,( especially vs wizard watergate) go? Btw, ty for everyone's time and patience.

[Boocheck]

And Akiros Favor, if you somehow roll 8 critical blanks

[Schwenkgott]

Ok, let's see. It depends of what my enemy is doing. If he plays a watergate or summons a early gorgon archer, his strategy is defensive. I have some time to build up, but because i'm melee oriented, i'll advance to his zone slowly, using all my actions.

(1) -> 20 Mana
Full Action -> Move 1 and construct a forge, that can cover most of the arena.
Quick Spell -> Enchanters Warstone to the starting corner

(2) -> 18 Mana
Forge -> Deploy Defense Ring
Full Action -> Move 1 and construct a Temple of the Dawnbreaker near starting corner.
Quick Action -> Bim-Shalla near starting corner

(3) -> 13 Mana
Forge -> Deploy Dancing Scimitar
Full Action -> Move 1 and deploy Enchanters Ring
Quick Action -> Hidden enchant Bear Strength on you

(4) -> 16 Mana
Forge -> Deploy Galvitar
Quick Action -> Teleport 1 Zone (to the enemy or teleport enemy to you)
Full Action: Reveal Bear Strength and attack with Full Attack of Galvitar 8+4+3 Dice. Even the quick attack with piercing 2 could destroy a wizards tower.

If a gorgon archer is on the field, use your double defense to block his attack. If you are cursed with Agony or Enfeeble, dispel it immediatly. The enchanters wardstone should keep your own enchantments relativly safe.
If you fear a dissolve on your equipment, simply add the Armor Ward to your collection.
If your approach is somewhat successful, add a Akiros Favor, so your attack always deals a good amount of damage.
If your enemy summons devouring jellies, ignore them, evade them (they are slow and attack with full action only), use a force field and dont waste mana on armor items. Deploy the reflex boots instead for more defense capabilities.
If you get hit, use regrowth.

Your main goal is: Use your strengthend melee attack (0 Mana cost) to kill costly things from the enemy, that are easy prey (gorgon archer, wizard tower with a bound spell etc.).

[Avarice]

Hmmm.. so you would go straight for a tower or a gorgon. Not the mage? What do you do about tele traps? He had a couple out while I advanced. Also, with bear str and hand of bim shalla first attack will be 7+4+3, no?

[Schwenkgott]

Seeking Dispel or walk another way

Teleport Traps cannot endanger your strategy. You could march right into them. By teleporting you back, he wastes mana and an action ...  and you have more possibilities to deploy with your forge.

[Wildhorn]

Honestly, against a Watergate I would "waste" time and ressource to take down the gate. Watergate Wizard strength is all the actions he gains from gate and tower. By taking down the gate, you force him to manually summon creatures, giving you an edge and allowing you the game to last couple more round before you are screwed up.

With Bear Stenght + Lion Savagery + Force Hammer, the gate should be down in 1 or 2 rounds.