Good luck to the Gen Con players!

[haslo]

One small complaint, as a player who likes to be aggressive; I hope they release an updated version of Malacoda in the core set soon, or maybe an alternate art in later spell tomes, because he's been Errated several times to actually be effective now.  He's extremely good , because he's open to all the buffs available to Living Creatures, without their weakness to Poison conditions like Weak or Cripple, but you wouldn't know it unless you looked at the FAQ.  Also, Idol of Pestilence's damage was changed to direct Poison damage too, so it has synergy with him.

The changes to Malacoda and Idol of Pestilence are reflected in the latest printing of the core game. Not the spell tomes yet though. I have both versions, the fixed and the outdated one

[ringkichard]

I'm quite pleased that I predicted the #1 and #2 finishes. Makes me feel well informed

[Tacullu64]

I got them reversed, but I'm happier with all the wizards than I would have been to see a warlock win again (no offense to piousflea, I'm picking against a type of mage not a player).

What really makes me happy is the tie breaker system seemed to work, although without the details we can't know for certain.

[DeckBuilder]

What really makes me happy is the tie breaker system seemed to work, although without the details we can't know for certain.

But did it work? Among my reasons I gave when I was first to predict an Earth Wizard win was the tie-breaker favoured Volatric Shield.

I am now of the opinion that a simple "most damage" (as advocated by someone, I think you, in my Gencon tie-breaker thread) is the best tie-breaker. It removes the extra book-keeping (sooo inelegant) and brings the Holy mages back into the meta. Damage prevention of the Voltaric Shield is too good with Gencon tie-breaker.

The winner winning several rounds on tie-breaker is testament to this.

For those worried about Healing, it is only marginally more cost-effective than burst ranged damage, which also applies conditions and can remove threats (both have ceilings where excess rolls are wasted). We all know that ranged burst damage is only used as "finisher" on threats (and mage at endgame). A 100% burst damage strategy is inefficient compared to cumulative-benefit persistent threats. The same applies to a Heal and win on tie-break strategy when faced with a properly-built aggro deck.

This would also create a triangle in Mage Wars: control > aggro > healing > control (although these are biases, not definite wins/losses).

I love the wizard but I know when rules unfairly favour one side and this tie-breaker favours Wizard too much.

[Tacullu64]

Yeah, it was me that suggested that in your thread.

I do think the Voltaric Shield is one of the best abilities in the game, but it is well balanced by its 2 mana cost and players can mitigate its affect through clever play.

I still think we need the details on the games that went to time. If all the tie breakers were Earth Wizard vs Earth Wizard or control vs control then of course Earth Wizard will have done well in them. I want to know how an aggressive Warlock performed in tie breakers , especially vs Wizards.

[zot]

i faced 2 agressive warlocks. i was playing an air wizard. only one game went to time. i won the tie breaker by a decent margin. i managed to weather the other agressor and ended up killing him outright. a warlocks worst matchup is against wizards due to the metamagic anti cards. so it generally is a close match.

[Tacullu64]

Thanks for the feedback zot. Every little bit helps. Now if only we could get a more complete outlook from AW.

[reddawn]

What really makes me happy is the tie breaker system seemed to work, although without the details we can't know for certain.

But did it work? Among my reasons I gave when I was first to predict an Earth Wizard win was the tie-breaker favoured Volatric Shield.

I am now of the opinion that a simple "most damage" (as advocated by someone, I think you, in my Gencon tie-breaker thread) is the best tie-breaker. It removes the extra book-keeping (sooo inelegant) and brings the Holy mages back into the meta. Damage prevention of the Voltaric Shield is too good with Gencon tie-breaker.

The winner winning several rounds on tie-breaker is testament to this.

For those worried about Healing, it is only marginally more cost-effective than burst ranged damage, which also applies conditions and can remove threats (both have ceilings where excess rolls are wasted). We all know that ranged burst damage is only used as "finisher" on threats (and mage at endgame). A 100% burst damage strategy is inefficient compared to cumulative-benefit persistent threats. The same applies to a Heal and win on tie-break strategy when faced with a properly-built aggro deck.

This would also create a triangle in Mage Wars: control > aggro > healing > control (although these are biases, not definite wins/losses).

I love the wizard but I know when rules unfairly favour one side and this tie-breaker favours Wizard too much.

 

Yeah, pretty much this.  I've played enough OCTGN games now against super-defensive Wizard strategies that every little bit of damage counts and tbh, those games are about as fun as watching paint dry.  This game is about mages fighting, and while I understand healing is important for any mage, if I spend the entire time trying to deal damage and the other player doesn't interact with me at all and just heals, and even then I still get more damage on him or her, I should win because I'm the only one actively trying to win.

Healing and damage prevention are far, far more efficient in this game than in games like MTG, and tournament rules need to compensate.

[Fentum]

Hey Reddawn,

I value your posts, so I have a query on this one. In every game I have played so far, I am very happy to see my opponent start to cast heals. I feel that I am gaining tempo and advantage.  I don't recall losing a game after that point .

Can you give some more insight in the dragged out healing matches? How does that happen?

[reddawn]

I would not say that Healing incantations are the problem, but it's more the ability to cast stuff like Regrowth Belt and lots of armor bits off a Battleforge multiple times that can be problematic.  That kind of play, unlike playing a more powerful healing incantation, doesn't constitute losing tempo because you're not actually spending an action, yet the only way so far to stop that is for the opposing mage to spend in action either on a Dissolve, Poisoned Blood or Deathlock.  You could attempt to destroy the Forge, but that's further resources not spent against a Mage.

You combine this with the Wizard's Voltaric Shield, and it starts becoming a real issue. At that point, the Wizard is really only limited by mana, not actions, and the Wizard is the best channeler in the game so actual game time limits and rules become a real concern.

There are effective plays vs this kind of stall play, like curses and cutting healing, but the fact remains that when you start combining all of those free actions off of a Battleforge, Hand of Bim-Shalla (which should be Holy-Mage only, honestly, it would have solved the situation a long time ago) and the Wizard Tower, other mages simply cannot stand up to the sheer amount of free stuff the Wizard has access to after a while. 

That's why the focus needs to be on actually dealing damage, because otherwise games lose direction.  The other thing is that when you give access to all of these conjurations and things that give free actions, it doesn't take a genius to figure out how ridiculous that can get when you combine all of them.  That heavily tips the late-game favor to the Wizard, who at the moment has unparalled access to free things, and abilities to ensure that, unless a time limit is properly enforced, he will get there.

So, if I were to change things, I would:

1. Make Hand of Bim-Shalla a Holy Mage Only card, because while it's not great at first, the sheer amount of free actions you get over the course of the game should be limited to mages which do not already have stuff like the Wizard Tower

2. Make it more favorable to interact with equipment and the Battleforge.  Right now, a Battleforge is just way, way too safe of a play.  I see no reason why there cannot be a Purge Magic equivalent for destroying equipment, especially when the Battleforge is available to all mages.

3. Emphasize damage as the way to determine a winner.  This isn't Heal Wars.

[sIKE]

3. Emphasize damage as the way to determine a winner.  This isn't Heal Wars.

Battleforge even skews this with the armor you can pile on with it. Take the Stormdrake Hide, Leather Boot, Ethereal Cloak cast off of the BF and you have taken out a large amount of damage that can be rolled. This is why when I hear things like the Ballista are over powered I scoff as the Piercing is needed as the counter, same with the Vorpal Blade, it really helps cut back on the take away armor typically gives during a game. 

The obvious counter to BF is to rush, but then you get caught in the simple Force Push + Wall of Thorns counter. Their has been shown a lot of love to Wizard as of late. As for HoB both players can drop it and basically get the same free actions.  What has (IMHO) imbalanced the game at the moment is the Wizards Tower. It being able to swap in and out Attack cards with no mana or action cost is like a MOAB in Arena. The good news is that the nerfing of ToL+Hob has made it a bit more realistic/possilbe to destroy the Wizards Tower without loosing your life in the process. But it has to be a focus....

[reddawn]

Basically, my approach is 1. make HoB Holy Mage Only 2. make equipment and Battleforge easier to interact with, and 3. re-assess Wizard's Tower.  I see no reason why it deserves Channeling and FREE re-spellbinding whenever it's reserved for the mage with the easiest access to mana, especially at a mere 2 more mana than a Mana Crystal.

And yes, we absolutely need more piercing effects in the game.  They're are far too few of them right now compared to the amount of armor someone can stack on their mage.  It also doesn't help the problem with dealing with very high-armor conjurations.

[Fentum]

Thanks for the insight. I play a fairly aggressive big two / assassin / control build, but I think I will try out a defensive build with my wizard just to see what happens.

I love my wizard's tower, me, but I totally agree that it is a bit strong. The flexibility of changing spells is, for me, the key benefit. Well, that and the crazy combo strings that you can pull.   

[reddawn]

Thanks for the insight. I play a fairly aggressive big two / assassin / control build, but I think I will try out a defensive build with my wizard just to see what happens.

I love my wizard's tower, me, but I totally agree that it is a bit strong. The flexibility of changing spells is, for me, the key benefit. Well, that and the crazy combo strings that you can pull.   

Yeah approaching a Wizard's Tower without Eagleclaw Boots is borderline suicide.  I think it's kind of unfortunate how much of a massive band-aid those boots are to the current cardpool, but they're 100% necessary and I'll take what I can get.

[Tacullu64]

Uh, the wizard doesn't have exclusive access to armor. Use some yourself. Are control mages just suppose to remain soft (armorless) easy targets for aggressive builds? There are no global effects like Day of Judgement in Mage Wars. Control players need to be able protect themselves, and I don't mean protect yourself by being more aggressive then your opponent. Then your have boring see who can roll the most and best games.

What I'm reading in this thread sounds like we want to get rid of control builds because we don't like playing against them. Remember this is the first tournament won by a wizard compared to 2 by warlocks and one by turbo priestess, and warlocks have finished second in every tournament they didn't win.