Good luck to the Gen Con players!

[reddawn]

Conquest and FvW gave very few new specific options to the Warlock, really.  Sectarus and Drain Soul are about it, and they're equally useable for the Necromancer.  All the other mages got lots of new in-school cards, comparatively, and they're all incredible. 

This is probably in anticipation of NvD, but I don't see the the "love affair" Koz is talking about.  Seems kind of odd for him to say that considering 1. he complained about the Warlock being underpowered for a while and 2. only 2 specifically Dark school cards have been released since the core set, and neither of them are particularly auto-includes, even though they're cool and good. 

The Warlock really hasn't changed very much since release.  Sure, there are good out-of-school cards he can now use, but the Dark school has been virtually left alone.

[Koz]

Conquest and FvW gave very few new specific options to the Warlock, really.  Sectarus and Drain Soul are about it, and they're equally useable for the Necromancer.  All the other mages got lots of new in-school cards, comparatively, and they're all incredible. 

This is probably in anticipation of NvD, but I don't see the the "love affair" Koz is talking about.  Seems kind of odd for him to say that considering 1. he complained about the Warlock being underpowered for a while and 2. only 2 specifically Dark school cards have been released since the core set, and neither of them are particularly auto-includes, even though they're cool and good. 

The Warlock really hasn't changed very much since release.  Sure, there are good out-of-school cards he can now use, but the Dark school has been virtually left alone.

First of all, I did not "complain" about the Warlock, I started a thread to discuss whether or not he was weak in comparison to the other core mages.  So, I find it a bit antagonistic of you to take my post out of context and make it appear to be more negative than it was.  It was meant to be constructive and engage people in interesting dialogue, not to "complain".   

Secondly, there is much more to a mage gaining power than just what is in his or her direct school(s).  A card that benefits a mage's primary strategy is a gain to that mage whether or not it is of their school.  Cards like Falcon's Precision, Power Strike, Eagleclaw Boots, Colossus Belt, Lion's Savagery, Gravikor, etc are all very strong cards for aggro.  Even minor cards like Stormdrake's Hide, Akiro's Favor and Whirling Strike all help aggro in some of their deficient areas. 

Have other mages received some good stuff too?  Of course!  Never said otherwise.  I also never said aggro was unbeatable (nothing is).  I also didn't say aggro was overpowered (it isn't).  My point was that with the time restraint of a tournament and the new rule about counting damage to determine tie breaker, aggro has a natural edge in that format.  That is why I said that Forcemaster or Warlock wins Gencon, because they are the two aggro heavy mages.  I also agreed that since the Warlock is a bit more versatile than Forcemaster, he probably has the edge.

Outside of a timed tournament, I don't sweat aggro decks.  But I don't think control decks can win reliably enough in the allotted time and the tie breaker rules favor aggro. 

       

[Tacullu64]

I would say that the Wizard got the biggest boost of the original mages from the FvW set. That is because of his access to the earth school. The only reason Sectarus isn't auto include is because of the LoH (warlock exclusive). I would say those are the 2nd and 3rd best weapons after Galvitar.

I would say Drain Soul is an auto include. The spell is ridiculously good. It totally negates the drawback of making a demon your Bloodreaper and sticks an unhealable life loss of six on the opposing mage. The Wizard's Tower is the only spell for a non featured mage from CoK that can match its quality.

The official tie breaker system would appear ( at least to me) to favor the Warlock above all other mages. In my opinion he is the most efficient damage dealer when you factor his personal ability to deal damage (good weapons and his Battle Skill), the creatures he has in school access to, in school access to fire spells, and in school access to curses (which is, of course his bread and butter). When you add all that up, no other mage should be able to deal more total damage, which is what the tie breaker counts.

I think things have worked out pretty good for the Warlock since the core set released.

[reddawn]

@Koz: Some of those mentioned cards are not actually legal yet, so I can't imagine them being used at Gencon, which is a little more serious than Origins.

And maybe playtesters have had a different experience, but I have never tied a game.  There have been incredibly close games, but no ties for me yet.  I can't see how marginal tie-breaker condition is all that relevant.

My point was that the Dark school has been largely ignored over the past 2 releases, and I acknowledged that the Warlock has gotten new resources.  But that's not a big deal, because that's the case for all mages, and in-school and thus less costly for them.

@Tacullu: Drain Soul IS incredibly good.  It's also ridiculously expensive, which is a concern for very aggressive builds that would prefer Drain Life for its lower cost, and the fact that as a Warlock, your best advantage (at least on the offense) is your high life.  Not saying it can't work there, because I've played it a bunch of times and I love it every time, I'm just saying that the mana cost is suitably extreme and just as much of a consideration. 

The other problem is that Tainted damage isnt life loss, and CAN be healed through Finite Life. I'd argue that Drain Soul is a little less aggro in that respect, since your opponent can actually still solve it; granted, if they're alive after it is cast.

I think the Warlock is in a fine position too, but to say to speculate that the design team favors him seems pretty unfounded.  All other mages have gotten tons of in-school cards that they can put in their book on the cheap, and the Warlock has been untouched.  Which is fine, because as you say lots of the new cards are fine with him, but favoritism? That's far from the truth.

[Tacullu64]

I never said AW was favoring him. I made one tongue in cheek comment in another thread that I thought a warlock might be in charge at AW but I doubt that is what you're referring to. I did comment that he will probably benefit greatly from the DvN expansion, but that was a side effect of the theme of the expansion bringing a lot of Dark school spells.

Your description of tainted wounds is better than mine. I was inadequately trying to convey that the life can't be healed and that the condition must be removed which is more difficult. Some how I rambled off course. Sorry.

Edit: In regards to the tie breaker, it would be nice to see how many tournament games went to time, but so far that information hasn't been released if it was even collected. That would definitely impact just how bad the tie breaker is.

[reddawn]

The "favoritism" comment was more directed at Koz, who said the Warlock was the love affair of someone on the design team.  That's obviously an exaggeration, but for a game that prides itself on nearly impeccable balance, that kind of remark just seemed a little disingenious to me.

Also, the Warlock is my favorite, so I'm touchy when anyone says something positive or negative about him .

[Tacullu64]

@reddawn  I can tell you think that the tie breaker won't be a factor because games will hardly ever go to time. If this is the case I would agree with you. I was wondering if you agree that in the current environment it favors the Warlock?

[reddawn]

Really, competitive MW is in its early infancy, so we'll have to trust AW's judgment until there are more and regular tournaments.  My understanding is that Gencon is a more serious gaming setting, so if people are gonna rules lawyer their opponents, they're probably going to do it there.  If attendence is good at the AW booth (which it probably will be, since it apparently always is), we'll know if the the tie-breaker conditions are sound. 

Until then, your guess is as good as mine.

Games really shouldn't go to time if you know your book very well (which you should, since the Gencon tourny newsletter says "experience necessary," so it's not a time to be practicing/testing).  However, if it does happen, I don't think it would favor the Warlock, since it says the game ends after the round ends.  If it said something like, "until the end of next upkeep," then I would have reason to worry since a lot of aggressive conditions like Bleed, Rot, and Burns happen during that phase.

The way it's worded now, to end at the end of the round...I don't really think that benefits any mage in particular.  Seems fair enough to me.

[Tacullu64]

Fair enough. Since I asked for your opinion I'm not going to argue or try to persuade. But it's fairly obvious we see things quite a bit differently on this one.

[reddawn]

Hey, if it turns out those conditions favor the Warlock, I don't really care; I'm not going to be at Gencon to "abuse" them anyway

[Tacullu64]

Personally I hope that the control builds evolve to the point time is rarely an issue and it wouldn't matter what tie breaker was used. I think this might happen but I seem to be in the minority.

Strayed way off topic so better throw this out again......good luck to all you Gencon players! I feel better now, more on topic.

[Shad0w]

Finally back in my room Thursday night is done.

Top 3 mages were

Wizard Earth
Wiz Earth
BM Johk


Pat will be posting more info later

[Tacullu64]

Thanks for the update shadow. These results are a pleasant surprise, to me anyways.

[Fentum]

Thanks for the update shadow. These results are a pleasant surprise, to me anyways.

Not to me !   

[reddawn]

Thanks for the update shadow. These results are a pleasant surprise, to me anyways.

Not to me !   

Yeah, aggro players need to be very familiar with how Poison Immunity interacts with Poison control conditions like Weak and Cripple if they hope to win against the retinue of Arcane creatures, especially in combination with further Earth school conditions like Slam that can just decimate your ability to do anything relevant if you aren't well prepared.  So, I'm equally unsurprised that Earth Wizards are winning; Arcane and Earth can beat the crap out of the game's basic ways of dealing damage quickly, and the solutions aren't terribly obvious.

In that context, I'm slowly realizing just how important access to Nonliving, Incorporeal, Uncontainable and Psychic Immune creatures is; those traits give you an initial resistance to control and are extremely important.  They also make those seemingly crappy Holy school attack spells much more interesting for players interested in defeating opponents who are aware of the value those kinds of traits have for aggressive books, which I'm guessing people are going to finally catch onto once they realize that control is not only doable, but strong.  Especially after NvD is likely to provide more control-resistant creatures, as well as probably Holy spells to deal with them.

One small complaint, as a player who likes to be aggressive; I hope they release an updated version of Malacoda in the core set soon, or maybe an alternate art in later spell tomes, because he's been Errated several times to actually be effective now.  He's extremely good , because he's open to all the buffs available to Living Creatures, without their weakness to Poison conditions like Weak or Cripple, but you wouldn't know it unless you looked at the FAQ.  Also, Idol of Pestilence's damage was changed to direct Poison damage too, so it has synergy with him.