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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« on: November 21, 2019, 07:46:02 AM »
Pillar has two things going for it.
A) It is an epic card, which is a trait that does have some weight as to the math that goes into it
B) It is a skill card
Mage Wars has two aspects to it, the building component and the gameplay component.
From a spellbook building component? Yes it is an easy choice for holy mages and 9 out of 10 times a solid choice for everyone else, even at 6 spellbook points for the three dark mages, as an ace up your sleeve, tempo zone lockdown card.
Like a few other spells, the potency of Pillar is something that is determined by external factors, most importantly the timing, and cannot be the solo determiner of it's costs. The same argument of "imbalance" could be made for all the timing/skill cards like reverse attack, eye for an eye, mind control, and divine intervention.
Knabbmaster has a great breakdown of comparing the cost of attack spells and pillar (plus teleport/push costs) which is a very good light to look at it in a spellbook building perspective, but doesn't translate perfectly either into a gameplay aspect. He is 100% right that it can be a very big, EPIC, tempo card that can go along way and, more important than anything, is readily available to all mages regardless of training. Epic spells that are not powerful is just bad design. Mediocre Epic spells do not make for fun gameplay. I, personally, would not call it "OP" by any means.
For the push/wave argument, may I introduce you to [mwcard=MWSTX2FFW01]Wall of Earth[/mwcard] for the low, low cost of 5 mana.
And I am still trying to wrap my head around a situation where 4 skeletal sentries and 3 skeletal knights have not already won the game, that's ~27 dice a round; not to mention [mwcard=DNI05]Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard] means some of that skeletal army may survive. Regardless, you are using an extreme example, which shows the potency of two skill cards at work might I add. Should force wave be epic and cost ~9-12 because it CAN be such a huge swing?
Also keep in mind a few things about pillar that I see a few people get confused on:
It is a ranged attack, not a zone attack: Defenses, like [mwcard=MW1E17]Force Orb[/mwcard] or [mwcard=MW1E07]Cobra Reflexes[/mwcard], and Intercept can force the Pillar to miss a creature.
Creatures summoned into the zone do not get attacked by the pillar as they are not "entering the zone" as stated in the FAQ:
"Entering a Zone A creature only “enters” a zone if it moves there using a move action, or is Pushed or Teleported. Being Summoned or otherwise put into play in that zone does not count as “entering” the zone. Thus, traps and spells like Mangler Caltrops are not triggered when a creature is Summoned. "
and last but definitely the least important, and has never come up in a game of MW ever, Pillar cannot target a creature that is currently invisible.
If anything, more, epic/mage only, spells need to use Pillar as the bar.
A) It is an epic card, which is a trait that does have some weight as to the math that goes into it
B) It is a skill card
Mage Wars has two aspects to it, the building component and the gameplay component.
From a spellbook building component? Yes it is an easy choice for holy mages and 9 out of 10 times a solid choice for everyone else, even at 6 spellbook points for the three dark mages, as an ace up your sleeve, tempo zone lockdown card.
Like a few other spells, the potency of Pillar is something that is determined by external factors, most importantly the timing, and cannot be the solo determiner of it's costs. The same argument of "imbalance" could be made for all the timing/skill cards like reverse attack, eye for an eye, mind control, and divine intervention.
Knabbmaster has a great breakdown of comparing the cost of attack spells and pillar (plus teleport/push costs) which is a very good light to look at it in a spellbook building perspective, but doesn't translate perfectly either into a gameplay aspect. He is 100% right that it can be a very big, EPIC, tempo card that can go along way and, more important than anything, is readily available to all mages regardless of training. Epic spells that are not powerful is just bad design. Mediocre Epic spells do not make for fun gameplay. I, personally, would not call it "OP" by any means.
For the push/wave argument, may I introduce you to [mwcard=MWSTX2FFW01]Wall of Earth[/mwcard] for the low, low cost of 5 mana.
And I am still trying to wrap my head around a situation where 4 skeletal sentries and 3 skeletal knights have not already won the game, that's ~27 dice a round; not to mention [mwcard=DNI05]Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard] means some of that skeletal army may survive. Regardless, you are using an extreme example, which shows the potency of two skill cards at work might I add. Should force wave be epic and cost ~9-12 because it CAN be such a huge swing?
Also keep in mind a few things about pillar that I see a few people get confused on:
It is a ranged attack, not a zone attack: Defenses, like [mwcard=MW1E17]Force Orb[/mwcard] or [mwcard=MW1E07]Cobra Reflexes[/mwcard], and Intercept can force the Pillar to miss a creature.
Creatures summoned into the zone do not get attacked by the pillar as they are not "entering the zone" as stated in the FAQ:
"Entering a Zone A creature only “enters” a zone if it moves there using a move action, or is Pushed or Teleported. Being Summoned or otherwise put into play in that zone does not count as “entering” the zone. Thus, traps and spells like Mangler Caltrops are not triggered when a creature is Summoned. "
and last but definitely the least important, and has never come up in a game of MW ever, Pillar cannot target a creature that is currently invisible.
If anything, more, epic/mage only, spells need to use Pillar as the bar.
