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Messages - Kharhaz

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16
Rules Discussion / Re: force pull through Mind's eye
« on: November 28, 2018, 06:35:08 PM »

2)
A.What happens now that the Forcemaster is able to target herself with Force Pull through Mind's Eye? Nothing? OR Any direction you choose?

B. Doesn't it make more sense to force (pun intended) the pull to move in a certain direction..i.e. Toward the source?  Which is now Mind's Eye. 

C.Should changing the Source of Force Pull have ramifications other than range as it does with other spells?  Reverse Magic, Revese Attack will affect the Eye rather than the Forcemaster (or Thoughtspore) when using other spells.  Why does it not change the effect of Force Pull?

2.A) The same thing that happens when you cast push on yourself.

2.B) Debating intent of effect vs intent of spell is irrelevant. At the end of the day, if I was a judge, the rules say how it works so that is how it works. Your judge may disagree but from the reverse, if I was playing someone and they called a judge over and the judge decided that a rule didn't apply becuase my opponenet didnt want it to, I would not be very happy.

2.C) Reverse magic / nullify require enchantment and incantations to trigger, so force pull will not trigger that; side note. The source of Force Pull does change for the record, it's the mind eye. What you have to remember is that force pull overrides the PUSH effect and that is why this gets weird.


P.S. I'll take you around the block any day ol buddy ;)

17
Rules Discussion / Re: force pull through Mind's eye
« on: November 28, 2018, 02:24:53 PM »
All throughout playtesting, I personally...as well as those with whom I playtested, assumed that Mind's Eye becomes the place toward which the target is pulled... I.E. the Forcemaster's ability gets reworded to "...pulled one zone toward the source".

Force Pull had no historical reason to be worded in the above manner and it is simpler "plain English" to just say "her" instead of "the source" because "her" IS the source...until Mind's Eye comes along.  All of a sudden you've divorced "caster" from "source" and now there's a grey area. Rather brilliant that this is the ONE thing that causes problems with Mind's Eye's wording.

Now, I'm not the designer and I don't know the intent.  I always prefer intent over "Rules As Written" and that may be a shortcoming of mine.

Most of the time Mind's Eye is used to cast Thoughtspore spells in my experience, but the potential to pull anywhere is what makes the spell actually interesting and fun to play.

As the official Rules Codex and Supplement has not been updated on this item it falls to the community to decide how to rule it. I know of at least two tournaments (both of which I've been involved in running, so take this with a grain of salt) that rule the way I have up above. By no means am I the arbiter of your enjoyment of this game, but tradition interprets grey areas and there's a tradition started with both this spell and with Disciple of Radiance and I would counsel to go with tradition.


Not disagreeing with you Pudding, but Ini wanted a solid rules foundation.

From FAQ:
"Unless the effect says otherwise, the pushed creature must move one zone away from the source of the Push"

The Force Pull effect overrides the source for the Push effect. It's not a gray area at all really becuase of how force pull is written to always push the creature towards the force master.






18
Rules Discussion / Re: force pull through Mind's eye
« on: November 28, 2018, 11:59:59 AM »
In short, RAW, "her" is the forcemaster.

Mind's eye changes the source of the spell but not the ability of a spell.

You still cannot push creatures through walls with the passage attack trait and the spell is still an "untyped" force spell that follows all the normal steps. (doesn't trigger nullify, force ring discounts, etc.)

The push effect, see the codex, specifically works by having the target move 1 zone away from the source. The forcemaster ability overides that by always setting the Forcemaster as the source.

19
Custom Cards / Re: A Necro Academy Conjuration and more...
« on: August 31, 2018, 10:32:13 AM »
So Sharknado is hilarious!

But the melee attack would never happen due to the spell targeting a zone and there not being a legal target for the melee attack. You would need some additional context to make that happen, "All creatures pushed by the zone attack receive the above melee attack"


or something similar.

20
General Discussion / Re: The Killer Bees
« on: August 30, 2018, 12:02:09 AM »
While on the subject lets take a look at [mwcard=FWI04]Force Wave[/mwcard]
Wave does not target a creature, but a zone. However it is always a spell and never an object. So the swarm would not be able to be affected by Force Wave.

Which takes me back to a statement I made in a different post, that a Force Wave can move things like a Rhinoceros or Adramelech or Thorg, but cannot touch a swarm of bees or a trail of ants, and that this seems very off to me.

It can move a single bee or two, but not the entire swarm?

21
General Discussion / Re: The Killer Bees
« on: August 29, 2018, 04:17:50 PM »
Why?

Arent conjurations non-attack spells?

It says cant be targeted or affected by non-attack spells

Beat me to It Zuberi!


A Conjuration is a non attack spell. Correct; then you cast it.

Once that conjuration spell resolved successfuly it became an object. An object, and this is the important part, is not a spell. Swarms cannot be affected / targeted by non-attack spells.

So you cannot ccast [mwcard=MW1J22]Tanglevine[/mwcard] on a creature with the swarm trait, that conjuration spell does not target swarms, but you can affect it with Etherian Life Tree, Deathlock, and the zone attack from akiros hammer since they're objects and no longer need to target the swarm creature for their effects to take effect.

An example for clarity is the ever popular [mwcard=DNI02]Burst of Thorns[/mwcard]
burst targets a vine marker, that vine marker makes that attack against a swarm. The incantation isn't targeting the swarm so good on that end.

While on the subject lets take a look at [mwcard=FWI04]Force Wave[/mwcard]
Wave does not target a creature, but a zone. However it is always a spell and never an object. So the swarm would not be able to be affected by Force Wave.

22
General Discussion / Re: The Killer Bees
« on: August 29, 2018, 01:15:53 PM »
does somebody have the rule text for swarm?

Swarm
This creature is made up of countless Smaller creatures.  Creatures with the swarm trait cannot guard and cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures.  When attacking, Creatures with swarm trait may make additional strikes equal to their remaining health.   Additionally, they are immune to conditions, and have the finite life trait. Non zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.


Non-attack spells require swarm in their targeting line to effect them.

Conjurations still function normally, so idol of pestilence will deal 1 damage each round to swarms.

23
Rules Discussion / Re: obscure and vines
« on: August 23, 2018, 04:50:53 PM »
Vine markers can only be used to ignore the range of a spell targeting the vines zone, object's in that zone, or bordering that zone. So you cannot use a vine to ignore the range into an adjacent zone.


Hypothetically, if the burst of thorns attack had a 0 - 1 Range then you could since the vine is making the attack and the spell is targeting the vine and not the necromancer. However that's not the case here

24
Rules Discussion / Re: enchantments
« on: August 20, 2018, 09:15:40 AM »

that makes possible:
1) you have a revealed bear strength on your bear, i can cast another one (hidden) making you think it's a nullify that will forbid you to teleport your bear
2) you have a hidden bear strength on your bear, i cast another one (hidden), when you reveal yours, i can dispel it and reveal mine. (i can't think now of a better example... sorry)

is that right?

No.

1. If the opponent has a revealed bear strength, it is an illegal move for you to place your hidden bear strength on it. You know it's a duplicate and that is not allowed.

2. When the opponents bear strength is resolved, you can leave your bear strength hidden, and reveal it when there is no longer a bear strength on the creature. If you decide to reveal the bear strength, you destroy the newer copy.


FAQ has it laid out well:

Duplicate Enchantments
When an enchantment is revealed, if it is attached to an object or zone which already has a revealed enchantment with the same name attached to that same object or zone, the newly revealed enchantment is immediately discarded without effect. Players cannot cast an enchantment which targets a zone or object if there is either (a) a friendly hidden enchantment with the same name attached to that zone or object, or (b) a revealed enchantment with the same name (friendly or enemy) attached to that zone or object.

 Note that it is possible to attach a duplicate enchantment to the same zone or object as an opponent’s hidden enchantment. This would be unintentional or accidental, because you will not know that the duplication exists. Later, if the enemy hidden enchantment is revealed, you will realize that you have attached a duplicate enchantment to the same object. When this occurs, you may leave the duplicate enchantment in play as a hidden enchantment. If you later reveal that enchantment while the duplicate is still attached, you will have to destroy and discard the newer copy which you just revealed without it having any effect.

When you reveal an enchantment, you only discard it without effect if there is another revealed enchantment of the same name attached to that zone or object. A hidden enchantment of the same name does not cause you to discard the newly revealed enchantment.

25
General Discussion / Re: Gen Con Academy pre releases
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:39:20 AM »
From the last documentation I have:

Swarm (Object Trait)
Creatures with the Swarm trait cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target Swarm creatures. Creatures with the Swarm trait may make multiple additional strikes when attacking. The total number of attacks they make is equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions and healing. Non-zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.

Killer Bees have 3 health. So that should be a total of 3 attacks; not a base of 1 plus remaining health of 3 in this case.

Also Hand, Marked, Scout, etc apply to the first attack made each round. So it will be 1 +X critical dice, then the additional strikes at 1 dice each as per normal. Life Tree would then extend the number of extra attacks.


Not that it helps the innital reaction to them, but that is the closest thing I have to official verbage at the moment.

That is not what the text of the Druid Academy Rulebook says. I don't have access to it right now, but I know it says something quite different.

So they added a guarding restriction and changed the bit on the number of attacks; interesting

Devil's Advocate: Zone attacks are still very effective against them. A voltaic discharge and a volley of flame gets the job done more often than not. Gives[mwcard=FWC10]Ludwig Boltstorm[/mwcard] something to do too lol :P

@Arkdeniz +1

26
General Discussion / Re: Gen Con Academy pre releases
« on: August 11, 2018, 07:50:41 PM »
From the last documentation I have:

Swarm (Object Trait)
Creatures with the Swarm trait cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target Swarm creatures. Creatures with the Swarm trait may make multiple additional strikes when attacking. The total number of attacks they make is equal to their remaining health. Additionally, they are immune to conditions and healing. Non-zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.

Killer Bees have 3 health. So that should be a total of 3 attacks; not a base of 1 plus remaining health of 3 in this case.

Also Hand, Marked, Scout, etc apply to the first attack made each round. So it will be 1 +X critical dice, then the additional strikes at 1 dice each as per normal. Life Tree would then extend the number of extra attacks.


Not that it helps the innital reaction to them, but that is the closest thing I have to official verbage at the moment.

27
You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Sorry Kharhaz - wrong answer.

Quote from: FAQ 'Explode' entry
The explode attack is dependent on destroying the equipment. If for some reason the equipment is not destroyed, there will be no
attack


Ya that will do it. Thx for digging that up Kelanen

28
I'd love to have the interaction between Explode and Armor Ward/Anvil Throne Warlord runes explicitly clarified.

The interpretation that my friends and I have universally agreed on is that if you successfully cast Explode, then an effect prevents the equipment destruction, that does NOT prevent the attack from occurring.

Nothing in the rules text for Explode indicates that the attack is conditional on the item actually being destroyed, it just has "Effect 1, then Effect 2".

However, thematically that doesn't sit well with us. We previously assumed the attack is the result of the item destruction (since it comes after, the spell is an incantation, etc.), but now they seem totally unrelated. If e.g. Forcefield blocks the attack (works on Unavoidable attacks unless I'm mistaken), that doesn't prevent the destruction. If the destruction is blocked via a rune, that doesn't prevent the attack.  :'(

"When you cast explode, choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. X = 6+ the equipment's casting cost. Destroy the chosen equipment. Then, Explode makes the above flame attack against the target mage."

Lets cover the full spectrum of options for clarity.
Harshforge plate effect adds to the casting cost of explode. So it would be X = 6 + casting cost + 2. If they cannot pay then it does not happen. Simple enough

You're absolutely correct in your interpretation of the interaction with armor ward and explode. The casting cost is set and in step 3 "resolve" you destroy the equipment, however that is when armor ward effect is triggered. So then you have to pony up another 2, if you can't then the object is not destroyed as per armor ward. The attack still follows through since the explode effect was not canceled.

Just nit picking here but it is not an (effect 1, then, effect 2). It's the explode effect (destroy item, then, make attack). It's all one effect of the spell so you have to stop the entire thing to prevent both interactions.



29
General Discussion / Gen Con Academy pre releases
« on: August 01, 2018, 11:35:11 AM »
Academy Necromancer

Academy Monk

30
Events / Re: Gen Con 2018
« on: July 30, 2018, 09:02:37 PM »
   i know grizzly and the crew are showing Wednesday and working to get aw booth set up i am sure. anyone else arriving early?

Wed at 11:30 am

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