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Mage Wars => Creative => Custom Cards => Topic started by: JasonBourneZombie on June 09, 2015, 08:40:18 PM

Title: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 09, 2015, 08:40:18 PM
13 Mana      Monstrous Lurker        Undead, Zombie
Range 0-0,    Full action     Level 4 Dark

/ Armor     9 Health
Legendary, Psychic Immune, Nonliving, Resilient, Lumbering, Bloodthirsty 1

Latch On: Quick action, 4 Dice melee attack, d5+ Stuck.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 09, 2015, 09:00:31 PM
Also like the idea of:

10 mana      Temple of Affliction       Temple, Artifact
Range 0-1      Quick cast       Level 3 Dark

2 armor       8 life
Epic, Dark Mage Only, Zone Exclusive
Each creature gains Tough+X, where X is equal to the number of Burn and/or Poison conditions attached to it.


Just the idea that sick creatures get sicker more easily and things on fire tend to have the fire spread. Somewhat realistic application.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 10, 2015, 01:13:09 PM
2 mana 4 reveal.      Proven Zeal.      Enchantment
Range 0-2.       Target Holy Creature      Quick cast.      Level 2 Holy
Unique. Holy Mage only.
Enchanted creature is immune to Psychic abilities and effects.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 10, 2015, 01:30:32 PM
5 mana.      Prepare for Battle.      Incantation.command
Range 0-1.      Target soldier.      Quick cast.      Level 1 war.
Target creature receives +2 melee dice on counter strikes and -2 toughness this turn.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 10, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
12 mana.      Chameleon Dragon.      Creature. Reptile.
Range 0-0.      Full cast.      Level 3 nature.

1 armor. 9 life.

Sudden Bite: quick action, melee attack, 4 dice, 1 piercing.

Ranged attacks against Chameleon dragon have ranged -X, where X is the distance between it and the source of the attack.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Laddinfance on June 10, 2015, 05:19:53 PM
12 mana.      Chameleon Dragon.      Creature. Reptile.
Range 0-0.      Full cast.      Level 3 nature.

1 armor. 9 life.

Sudden Bite: quick action, melee attack, 4 dice, 1 piercing.

Ranged attacks against Chameleon dragon have ranged -X, where X is the distance between it and the source of the attack.

This "chameleon" ability is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 10, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
Ah, thanks. I was just throwing ideas out there, and I thought the beastmaster needed another reptile. Komodo dragons and velociraptors were already done, so I thought a chameleon would be good.

Didn't have the heart to give it obscured or invisible, so I settled on this.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 10, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
7 mana       Steam Burst.      Attack spell.
Range 0-1.        Target living creature.      Quick cast.      Level 1 Fire & Level 1 Water.
3 dice ranged attack. Unavoidable. Critical.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 12, 2015, 09:30:11 PM
I also find the chameleon idea very interesting honestly. This definitely needs some consideration.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: echephron on June 12, 2015, 11:12:07 PM
I like Temple of Affliction based around poison conditions. I'd love some tough+x to get out there if it can work right.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 13, 2015, 10:20:11 AM
Trying my best to make interesting, useful, and balanced card ideas. Some obviously would need tweaking.



5 mana.      Cloak of Thorns.      Equipment.
Range 0-2.      Target Mage.      Quick cast.      Level 1 nature.

Nature Mage only.   
Damage barrier. 1 die. Unavoidable. D8+ bleed.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Boocheck on June 13, 2015, 03:09:10 PM
I also like Chameleon :) his ability seems nice. It is nothing game changing or game breaking but it can still be really nice in certain scenarios :)
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 13, 2015, 03:59:44 PM
Certainly helps the range game for some of the schools. Nature is especially lacking in that area in my opinion. Healthier and faster creatures help, but outright mitigation would help too.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Boocheck on June 13, 2015, 04:28:59 PM
I would not say that is is lacking. Each school should have an area or a field in which they are weak or its their weakness.

Take a war school for example. There are great ammount of creatures and spells which are focused or improve ranged attacks but there is no flying in this school (dont worry AW, my work on Goblin Catapult is nearly finished).

Fact that Nature is "only" able to shoot in 0-1 range is not their weakness but a signature of this school :) Also, if you combine all movement restriction cards from druid expansion, one have to fully understand, why is she penalized for using war school. All those "cheap" ranged units combined with Strangelvine, Tangelvine, Stuck effects, hinder from vine tokens...

I am really curious, what other stuff you bring in future :)
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 13, 2015, 06:59:29 PM
I didn't mean to imply that Nature needed to have ranged attacks so much as an inborn talent for dealing with them.  The dark school has very little in attack spells, the closest being short range incantations that do direct damage, and their "ranged game" is enhanced by the cloak of shadows. Most opponents trying to hit you with a spell are in range.

The Tegu gets soldier level armor, the raptor gets an actual ranged attack, and an ability similar to this could be another work around. I'm suggesting that slower, less robust animals have a means to absorb some of the ranged damage coming their way, even if nature mages never see much in the way of having their own ranged attacks.

Other card/board games have a similar quality as well. MTG has green 'reach' to deal with the fact that, as a color, green isn't supposed to have its own flyers. In Heroclix, the fast characters that move and attack in one action usually have low range as a penalty. I like that Mage Wars is setting a tone for each of the schools.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 13, 2015, 11:24:17 PM
As a Beast Master....I want grizzly archers....
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 14, 2015, 06:02:54 AM
Quote
As a Beast Master....I want grizzly archers....

You already have the ability to give bear strength to a bear! Quiet, you!
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 14, 2015, 08:54:02 AM
15 mana.      Crazed Fiend.      Creature. Demon.
Range 0-0.      Full cast.      Level 4 Dark.

2 armor.11 life.

Running Slash: quick action, melee attack, 4 dice, 1 piercing.

Great Cleave: Full action, melee attack, 4 dice, 2 piercing, *vicious.

Bloodthirsty 2.

***Vicious being a proposed -3 modifier on defense rolls.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 15, 2015, 10:09:16 PM
8 mana.       Psionic armor.       Equipment. Force.
Range 0-2.       Quick cast.       Level 2 Mind

+2 Armor
Equipped Mage may pay 3 mana after it has successfully avoided a melee attack to place a guard token on itself.



Honestly not too sure about this one. Our local Forcemaster is always sitting on a ton of mana, so I figured this would be a good use.  Somehow 3 mana seems too cheap and 4 mana seems too expensive at the same time. Guard goes away at the end of the attack so it's functionally "Mage's quick attacks gain counterstrike for this attack only", but this was more concise.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 15, 2015, 10:43:04 PM
Hmmmm not sure about this one either.....

Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 16, 2015, 05:51:31 AM
I thought about a once per turn reroll a defense ability, even something that disabled the armor upon activating an ability once a turn, but I just couldn't make them work. I saved forcemaster for last because they pretty much have everything they should. They do NOT need another enchantment or incantation to deal with opponents' creatures.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 16, 2015, 07:23:01 AM
Y'know, make it once per round and I think it works.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 19, 2015, 10:55:46 AM
4 mana.       Ring of Sowing.       Equipment. Finger Slot.
Range 0-2.       Quick cast.       Level 1 Nature

When a friendly plant creature is destroyed but not Obliterated, you may pay 2 mana. If you do, you may place a Seedling Pod in the zone it was destroyed in.




This was my idea for balancing the Vine Tree versus the Samara Tree. A link to the thread is below.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=15626.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 24, 2015, 10:02:30 AM
6 mana.       Wall of Corpses.       Conjuration. Wall.
Range 0-1.       Quick cast.       Level 1 Dark.

/ armor.
5 health.

Resilient. Extendable. Block line of sight. Block passage.

Counter attack. 0 dice. Unavoidable.

Friendly zombies in an adjacent zone may obliterate themselves as a full action to place a number of growth counters equal to their level on Wall of Corpses.



This is an extension of a card idea I floated past silverclawgrizzly a while back. I think shaggoth zora would have been better if it received proportional numbers of growth counters as well.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 24, 2015, 10:56:31 AM
Growth markers are huge dude. They greatly increase a resilient objects sustainability. If one Level 3 or above zombie kills itself then that wall is frankly just not coming down.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 24, 2015, 12:25:10 PM
I understand that, but bear with me. The average zombie has health exceeding three times their level.

Crawlers lvl 1:4 health
Minion 2-7
Brute 3-10
Shaggoth zora obviously has less health because he gains markers. But he also isn't very useful, so he probably needs more oomph.
Venomous and plague zombies trade health and damage for poison effects.
Unstable zombies straight up remove damage. 2 damage on a resilient creature is roughly the equivalent of 4 regular life on an unarmored creature.

I'm offsetting having to sacrifice an army to make a strong wall by making it a worthwhile wall. Maybe if they transfer any damage they have on them.

Also, I know only creatures get growth counters, but it was the best equivalent mechanic I could think of.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 24, 2015, 12:52:33 PM
Also, for a roughly apples to apples comparison, wall of bones has 12 life, zero armor. Reassemble is a 4 mana quick cast that heals 6 life on average. A growth counter on a resilient creature is similar to 6 life on an unarmored creature statistically. Level 1 zombies cost 4 for one potential growth, 2's cost 8 on average for 2 growth, and 11 for 3 growth. Seems in line number wise to me with the existing wall of bones.

For using a full action and a slower delivery method, the zombie wall gets a counter strike as well.

In terms of sacrificing a level three or equivalent combination, yes it's hard to take down, but the necromancer already has easily healed walls and the warlord has the steel wall which he has the ability to repair. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think it outshone those options. At that point, it's similar to a level 4 wall with 28 life and no armor for 14-17 mana. 14 if you sacrifice a legendary creature to it. It costs 6 for a 12 life no armor wall of bones.


Edit:  fixed math on level 2's. Added commentary at bottom.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 25, 2015, 01:30:44 PM
It takes an action from your mage to heal a Wall of Bones and mana. A creature, even a lowly crawler, has presumably already gone out and done stuff before becoming one with your wall. Now I'd be all for a resilient wall that could have a weak counter strike cause....well it's funny. But being able to give Growth tokens I dunno.

Then again Nature Walls self heal, War walls can be repaired by creatures, and even the upcoming Wall of Force can be healed during Upkeep. Of the existing walls only the Fog Bank and Wall of Fire don't have ways to repair the damage onto them so some precedence for extending the longevity of a wall is certainly present.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 25, 2015, 03:42:39 PM
Just remember that in order for a zombie to make its way to a wall it will likely take a couple turns, ideal wall placement, or use of zombie frenzy. Also, ANY creature has greater utility if the enemy Mage leaves it alive over time. Just look to the priestess on that one.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 29, 2015, 09:52:23 AM
A little something for the priest. Works well for the priestess, but helps the holy avenger mechanic too.

2 mana. 3 reveal.       Sympathetic Bond.       Enchantment.
Range 0-2.        Target: friendly living non-Mage creature.       Quick cast.       Level 2 Holy.


Whenever this creature or its controlling Mage is healed, the other is healed half of that amount.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 29, 2015, 10:13:45 AM
4 mana.       Weapon chain.        Equipment. Shield hand.
Range 0-1.       Quick cast.       Target: Mage.        Level 1 War.

Any equipment melee attack may be used as a 0-1 ranged attack instead.  Weapon chain prevents the disable condition from being applied to equipment attached to this mage's hand unless 2 mana is paid.

Like the concept, but I think there would need to be a weapon subclass to make this practical.

Edit: Ugh, old English spelling mistake. Improving wording.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: echephron on June 30, 2015, 08:40:12 PM
that last one is far too good because there arent any mana-less quick ranged attacks for a reason. maybe if it made a weapons quick melee attack a full ranged 0-1 attack.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on June 30, 2015, 09:53:49 PM
I see your point, but figured requiring two quick casts for the chain and weapon up front along with their mana cost offset it pretty well. It makes a good counterpoint to the wizard's traited arcane zap, which does cost 1 mana, but does ethereal damage too.

We don't see much use of the bows in my meta precisely because there isn't a quick action 'free' ranged attack. That has also always hurt the joktari books here.

If it had to cost mana to use, this would quickly become a force enchantment. Not opposed, but would require rethinking.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 01, 2015, 10:01:44 AM
10 mana.        Epidemic.       Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: zone.       Quick cast.       Level 3 Dark.

This turn, when poison conditions would be applied to one creature in this zone, one is applied to each creature in this zone instead.



A little something to compete with zombie frenzy for the necro's attention. Not sure if under costed. Depends heavily on build, I guess.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: echephron on July 01, 2015, 02:28:35 PM
I like the idea of spreading conditions. lady warlock moves burns which is a start. a dark1 full action incantation. which targets a condition, and spreads it to all other objects in the zone sounds fun. Cost may be something like the sum of the removal costs of the new conditions/2 because spreading a stun is very different from spreading a daze.

your Epidemic + a rot zombie means the enemy mage may get 5+  rot conditions in one go, which means its never gonna happen.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 01, 2015, 06:48:27 PM
Might be true about too many conditions in one go. I've thought it a little strange that many mages like to pile into one zone when fighting someone who controls disease. That just always bugged me. Without poison gas cloud being dark, it's hard to deter that strategy.

The idea is that, since the necromancer obviously can't consistently cast both, instead of all zombies losing pest slow lumbering and getting bloodthirsty 1 and fast, they just apply poison more effectively. Most poison zombies can't even hinder fleeing creatures without a frenzy.

In light of that, and all zone attacks scaling wildly depending on the number of creatures in a zone, does it still seem like too much? I'll mull over the idea of spreading individual conditions.

Edit: removed a question since I came to a better understanding of echepron's suggestion.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 04, 2015, 11:22:25 AM
Ok. Best solution I have to balancing. The last spell.

3X mana.        Epidemic      Incantation. Poison
Range 0-2.        Target: zone     Quick cast.       Level 3 Dark.

Choose a poison condition on a creature in target zone. Place a condition of that type on each other creature in the zone. X= the condition's removal cost.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 04, 2015, 11:51:40 AM
You could do it as an Incantation. Target a creature with a Poison condition marker on it. Pay X mana to put the same condition on another legal target in it's zone where X is the cost of the condition marker. You may repeat this for every legal target in the zone paying the cost for each creature.

This way for example if you put a taint on something you want to spread to like 4 other creatures it'll cost you a little something. Priestess has to pay to remove tokens separately and that takes time. This lets you spread them a lot faster than she can cure them.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 04, 2015, 12:47:22 PM
Quick idea.

12 mana.        Leyline.       Conjuration. Metamagic. 
Range 0-1.        Target: zone.       Full cast.       Level 3 Arcane.

5 health

Incorporeal. Zone exclusive. Epic.

Mages in this zone reduce the cost of spells they cast by the spell's level.


Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 04, 2015, 03:41:40 PM
The thing that bothers me about poison conditions is that icthelid larva are a poison condition. Screws up most of the fantasy element surrounding poison application or cures. You can purify a creature away. By rights, you shouldn't be able to trivially spread parasites by air. I know it's magic, but it ruins the imaginative part for me.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 05, 2015, 10:58:56 PM
2 mana. 3 reveal.        Nature's Claim       Enchantment
Range 0-2.         Target: Enemy Mage.       Quick cast.       Level 1 Nature.

All equipment attached to enchanted Mage gains the upkeep 1 trait.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 05, 2015, 11:19:25 PM
5 mana.        Wither         Attack.
Range 0-2.        Target: Enemy creature.        Quick cast.       Level 1 Dark.

Ranged. X dice. Unavoidable. Ethereal.

X is equal to twice the number of curses attached to the targeted creature.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 08, 2015, 10:04:58 AM
6 mana.         Scorching sun.          Conjuration. Terrain.
Range 0-1.        Target: zone       Quick cast.       Level 2 Fire.

Terrain.

Plants in this zone may not regenerate. Creatures that activate in this zone are hindered. 



Trying to speculate on terrain.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 08, 2015, 10:41:37 AM
5 mana.        High Ground         Conjuration. Terrain.
Range 0-1.        Target: zone.         Quick cast.       Level 1 Earth.

Ranged attacks targeting this zone or an object within it reduce their range by 1.

When this terrain is removed, make a 1 die attack on each object within the zone.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 08, 2015, 12:43:31 PM
A couple more terrain today. Change of pace has got me a little more creative.



9 mana.        Demonic Overlay         Conjuration. Terrain.
Range 0-1.         Target: Zone.        Quick cast.       Level 3 Dark.

Terrain. Epic. Upkeep 1.

Objects in this zone receive the Flame +2 trait.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: ringkichard on July 08, 2015, 02:23:54 PM
10 mana.        Epidemic.       Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: zone.       Quick cast.       Level 3 Dark.

This turn, when poison conditions would be applied to one creature in this zone, one is applied to each creature in this zone instead.



A little something to compete with zombie frenzy for the necro's attention. Not sure if under costed. Depends heavily on build, I guess.

Isn't Egg a poison condition?
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 08, 2015, 06:12:31 PM
Quote
Isn't Egg a poison condition?

Quote
The thing that bothers me about poison conditions is that icthelid larva are a poison condition.

Sure is. Tried to imply in a previous post that I dislike that classification. I admit 100% that the larva screw up the theme of that idea. The larva aren't so good that I think it would be game breaking to spread the tokens, however. Max cap at 4, and you have to kill creatures to get any real use of the marker.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: ringkichard on July 08, 2015, 11:44:48 PM
Quote
Isn't Egg a poison condition?

Quote
The thing that bothers me about poison conditions is that icthelid larva are a poison condition.

Sure is. Tried to imply in a previous post that I dislike that classification. I admit 100% that the larva screw up the theme of that idea. The larva aren't so good that I think it would be game breaking to spread the tokens, however. Max cap at 4, and you have to kill creatures to get any real use of the marker.

People keep saying they don't think Ichtalids would be that good. I don't know, I've played them and they worked great for me several times. Their big weakness is that they're useless against nonliving, but I've found that what they can do, they do well.

Three free Bugs would be very good, and remember that while you're capped at 4 in play simultaneously, you can always bring back bugs from the discard pile as well as the spellbook. That can easily be more than 4 over the course of the game.

The big thing Bugs do is they offset the long term action disadvantage of using attack spells to kill creatures. If you put a larva on an opponents creature, then kill it with Force Hammer (or Fireball, or Drain Soul or whatever ) you've gained tempo by using a quick action to take out a full action, which means that your opponent (hopefully) lost a move action, and while your attack spell probably cost as much as your opponent's creature, you at least get a critter out of it too.

One of these days I'm going to come up with a good line of play for Necro against mana denial Wizard and other Necros. On that day I'll play in a national tournament with both Sardonyx and Bugs, and then you'll all see! You'll all see!! Haha!

Er, yes.

Anyway, people aren't shy about using attack spells against Conjurations, so it's weird to me that they'd balk at attack spelling creatures. From a cost per health & armor perspective, conjurations are often more durrible than equiv cost creatures.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 11, 2015, 08:48:38 AM
7 mana.        Riptide.       Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: Flooded zone      Quick cast.       Level 2 Water.

Siren only.

Move each creature in target zone into an adjacent flooded zone.



Something I hope the siren gets. Have not seen confirmation of the siren's abilities anywhere, but I like the idea posted here http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14186.msg41104#msg41104 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14186.msg41104#msg41104) enough to take it as canon.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 11, 2015, 10:21:22 AM
8 mana.        Crusader's Plate.       Equipment.
Range 0-2.        Target: Mage       Quick cast.       Level 2 Holy.

Armor +2.
Mage gains Aegis 1 if a holy spell has been cast this turn.



Mostly for the paladin. Not exclusive because I think it balances better if you can steal it.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 15, 2015, 02:44:34 PM
6 mana.        Electric Current.       Attack Spell.
Range 0-2.        Target: Creature or conjuration.        Quick cast.       Level 3 Lightning.

Ranged. Lightning. 4 dice. D6+ Daze. Ethereal

Ranged. Lightning. 4 dice. D6+ Stun. Ethereal. Sustained.



Idea of mine that trades in your ability to cast different spell's each turn for greater mana efficiency.

Sustained would be: When a Mage casts and has resolved this spell, as a quick cast, that Mage may pay half the cost of the spell in order to cast the sustained attack on the same target.

The wording is a little sloppy, but I think the mechanic works. Kind of like double strike for spells.

Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 15, 2015, 11:17:24 PM
That's not the worse idea. Maybe pay half the cost to get an attack at half the damage, assuming the first attack hit.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 16, 2015, 09:39:40 PM
Half the damage wouldn't really be worth it in a number of situations.  It may be that my example isn't quite mana balanced, but the idea is that the base cost is a little expensive for what you get, and the sustained plus base spell cost is a little cheap.

As one comparison, hurl boulder is one quick cast, 2 range 8 dice with a 8+ slam. The proposed spell would require a full action and quick cast to sustain it, yielding 2 range 4 dice ethereal X 2 with a 6+daze and 6+stun.

Armor will soak twice on one target, but you can choose two targets, so the die pool is somewhat comparable.
I don't quite know how ethereal balances (i know it is a substantial cost for attack spells) so costs may be off.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 21, 2015, 09:45:45 AM
8 mana.        Metamorphose.        Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: Friendly Creature.        Full cast.       Level 3 Arcane.

You may return target creature to your spellbook and replace it with another. All objects and markers attached to the first creature are transferred.



Wanted the wizard to be a little more creature based, and yet still view summoned creatures as magical structures.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Halewijn on July 26, 2015, 12:10:06 PM
8 mana.        Metamorphose.        Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: Friendly Creature.        Full cast.       Level 3 Arcane.

You may return target creature to your spellbook and replace it with another. All objects and markers attached to the first creature are transferred.



Wanted the wizard to be a little more creature based, and yet still view summoned creatures as magical structures.

Seems way too strong:
- Change an imp into adramelech for 8 mana
- Change a vine snapper in the wrong zone into cervere
- Change a high armor, low health/ethereal/zombie creature that took a lot of hits into a regenerating high health, low armor one. (troll)
- use it to bring back an almost dead epic creature to your book.
- ...

The idea seems a lot of fun, but it would be INCREDIBLY hard to balance it.  Almost doomed for errata.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 26, 2015, 09:18:08 PM
I figured it was a long shot. I knew there would be balancing issues, but I had assumed having to spend 8 mana and a full action to 'abuse' the spell might chase off most nasty combos. Ironically, did not figure on zombies. That is broken as all get out.

Maybe the replacing creature must have the same living and corporeality status as the first. Maybe share a creature type...

Those restrictions might reduce the 'costs' of the spell as well. Will put out a new version tomorrow, I think.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: echephron on July 27, 2015, 12:22:43 AM
A spin on your idea:
an illusion that makes one creature look like another.
the illusion could be an enchantment that must be revealed when creature interacts with anything.

or it could be a creature spell called "disguised creature" which is slow, has no attacks, and has a spellbound creature attached to it. The creature becomes the facedown one when hit or as a free action.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Halewijn on July 27, 2015, 12:31:07 AM
Maybe the replacing creature must have the same living and corporeality status as the first. Maybe share a creature type...

having the same subtype seems like a very good start. Maybe the same level, no legendary's or epic? I'm just thinking out loud.  ::)

Or a mana cost: 6+3x, x being each higher level the new creature has.

Imp: cost 5
transfuse it into adramelech: 6+5*3 = way too much. (what I want)

Gorgon Archer --> Darkfenne Hydra: 6 mana
Asyran defender --> Knight of Westlock: 9 mana
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: wtcannonjr on July 27, 2015, 05:40:52 AM
That's not the worse idea. Maybe pay half the cost to get an attack at half the damage, assuming the first attack hit.

But why add another trait to the rules when you could just use Doublestrike on Attack spells? Or perhaps this becomes an ability of the Elementalist mage. Pay 2 x spell level to add Doublestrike to a trained Attack spell.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on July 28, 2015, 07:12:36 AM
Quote
But why add another trait to the rules when you could just use Doublestrike on Attack spells? Or perhaps this becomes an ability of the Elementalist mage. Pay 2 x spell level to add Doublestrike to a trained Attack spell.

Most attacks get the double or triple strike ability as part of their balancing. 16 mana cost hydra would be a lot worse without the triple strike. So this would be an ability that changes the overall cost of a spell to ramp up the effect as well.

Quote
having the same subtype seems like a very good start. Maybe the same level, no legendary's or epic? I'm just thinking out loud.  ::)

Or a mana cost: 6+3x, x being each higher level the new creature has.

Imp: cost 5
transfuse it into adramelech: 6+5*3 = way too much. (what I want)

Gorgon Archer --> Darkfenne Hydra: 6 mana
Asyran defender --> Knight of Westlock: 9 mana

What I'm trying to balance is the fact that a second cast for a creature to hit the field is a cost, and that damage and conditions transfer as well. You can beat a scourger half to death easily. Adremalech not as easy. So if adremalech hits the field half dead, paying 24 mana is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 01, 2015, 03:02:55 PM
6 mana.          Metamorphose.        Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Target: Friendly Non-Mage Creature.        Full cast.       Level 3 Arcane.

You may replace target creature with a higher mana cost creature from your spellbook by paying the difference in their mana costs. Transfer all conditions and markers, including damage and mana.



Alright. At Gencon, and I've finally wrapped my head around this idea. Probably a little more fair.

Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: Halewijn on August 01, 2015, 05:34:03 PM
seems very cool. I would still add that they need the same subtype. (note: "soldier" is not the same as "soldier, undead")

And maybe a quick cast instead of full?

Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: ringkichard on August 02, 2015, 09:16:26 AM
It's theme is metamorphosis, probably actually needs to be different subtypes. You can cut zombies and incorporeal creatures out by requiring that both creatures be living, which makes thematic sense anyway.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: ringkichard on August 03, 2015, 12:14:02 AM
The real balancing issue you'd need to check is to see if there's starting creatures with markers that shouldn't ever be put on other higher level creatures.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 03, 2015, 09:47:33 PM
True about conditions. Some come to mind, now that I think about it. Imagining a team game where pet, eternal servant, blood reaper, vet, and other mage specific tokens could be abused. Eternal servant Brogan would be something of an issue.

As for balancing between subtypes/living status, I figured tying the cost of the spell to the difference in the creatures' mana costs would do the trick. In the examples I have in my head, this spell is still very fair to the opponent, if somewhat of a blindside.

I've got examples I've been using to keep the card fair. I've got turning damaged brogan or zombie brutes into a troll for healing purposes (Both being large creatures who take damage slowly) and it will still cost 8 mana to do, to say nothing of them ever turning back or the troll simply being killed. I also considered turning a falcon into adremalech once it was positioned, and that costs 24 mana still. The difference being a sudden unexpected legendary attacker right on top of you. Upgrading a leech in an opponent's square to a hydra costs 14 mana, and can be well worth it, but doesn't really save the casting mage any mana since s/he loses the leech.

What's the worst case scenario for sub type or living/unliving crossover I would have to fix the spell to prevent? I see that special condition markers need to be prohibited.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 06, 2015, 12:02:57 PM
2 mana. 2 mana mandatory reveal.           Fall back.         Enchantment.
Range 0-2.        Target: Friendly Creature.        Quick cast.       Level 1 War.

Fall back must be revealed during the avoid attack step of an attack targeting enchanted creature.

Move enchanted creature one zone away from the attacker.



Don't like the idea of mind having the only block type spell. Wanted to put a tactical spin on it too. The trade-offs are that this will dodge unavoidable melee attacks, but if you are well within attack range of a ranged attack, you will still be hit.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 08, 2015, 12:34:32 PM
Think I'll try a rundown of school mixes that we haven't seen much of yet.

Dark-Arcane:

15 mana.            Noxious Wight.         Creature. Spirit.
Range 0-0.        Full cast.       Level 2 Arcane. Level 2 Dark.

/ Armor
10 health

Unique. Upkeep 1. Incorporeal.

Corrupting Strike: melee. 4 dice. Ethereal. D5+ Hex. D9+ 2 Hex.

When a creature is destroyed, Noxious Wight reconstructs damage equal to the number of hex conditions on it.




Hex: counts as 1 damage and gives creature the upkeep +1 trait. Removal cost: 2.




Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: echephron on August 08, 2015, 01:32:36 PM
I like this hex condition idea, but the condition could use some balancing on the spirit creature itself. I equate it to a rot. I believe rot has a removal cost of 3, so this should too. I'd rather it not count as direct damage as well. upkeep+1 is enough. Mages can't gain upkeep effects(balance), so they are immune to it i guess? i am not sure.

No attack has a chance to place 2 rots. most of them are only on an 8-9+. He could maybe do 1 hex on a 5+, but then his attack dice should become 3. He is for cursing more than killing isnt he?

if other sources of hexing come out, Noxious Wights may heal too well. it limits the future inclusion of hex effects. Grey spirit has no heal, so why does this spirit? I don't like the idea of heal, but if you want it maybe: "when Noxious Wight deals damage to a creature, it may take one direct damage to place 1 hex condition on that creature. When a creature is destroyed, Noxious Wight reconstructs damage equal to the number of hex conditions on it."

What I would do with your idea is this guy; more focused on hexes than damage and without healing. he is semi-restrained too:

12 mana.            My Noxious Wight.         Creature. Spirit.
Range 0-0.        Full cast.       Level 2 Arcane. Level 2 Dark.

/ Armor
13 health

Not unique or legendary. Upkeep 1. Incorporeal. Restrained.

Hexing Shriek: range 0-2, indirect, full action, 0 dice, no damage, 3+ Hex
Strike: melee. quick action, 4 dice. Ethereal. 1manatransfer.
Hexing Strike: melee. full action, 2 dice. Ethereal. 5+ Hex 1manatransfer.

As a move action, My Noxious Wight may pay 1 mana to teleport to any zone which as a hex condition in it.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 08, 2015, 02:47:53 PM
A lot of the balancing issues you see with this creature are actually balancing mechanics I wanted to put on it. At first I wanted a strong sense of the creature wasting away, so I thought rot plus upkeep. I realized that was too broken, so I dropped it to 1 direct damage. It would be the in universe equivalent of a scar from a bad burn. The low removal cost was supposed to balance with the relative ease of application. The wizard mentality on this is that you are draining mana either way, and making the opponent pay up front isn't bad either. The direct damage was supposed to help with the lack of piercing.

As far as health and healing is concerned, you are probably right. I wanted something that a couple ethereal attacks could easily take out, but regular attackers would have to pile on to kill. Personally, I don't like the idea of a restrained ghost, though it might work as an in game mechanic.

Interesting sidebar. Upkeep +x applies to objects and mages are objects. So if you have a Mage with a high upkeep, you lose? Better reduce the hex count on the attack. Also means hex would need to be relatively rare or hard to place.

So how about this; the noxious wight I suggested except epic, 13 health and reconstructs 1 when a hexed creature dies. Hexes on a 5+. Hex places upkeep on creatures. Mages can pay with 1 life or 1 mana.

It can't live forever, you only get one, should have decent damage, and pulls off a poison/arcane feel.


Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 09, 2015, 08:24:29 PM
War-Nature

8 mana.            Gloves of the Brute.          Equipment. Gloves.
Range 0-2.        Quick cast.       Target Mage.        Level 2 Nature. Level 1 War.

Attack. Melee. Body Blow. 5 dice. D7+ push.


Idea being something vaguely apish in appearance granting heavy strikes. D7+ will let you throw someone through vines, or just into the wall of the arena. Probably need to lower the procc rate to be fair, but at present only the beastmasters can put this in their book for less than 5 spell points, so I think it evens somewhat.


Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 09, 2015, 09:15:45 PM
Mind-Holy

7 mana.           Strike Dumb.          Incantation.
Range 0-1.        Quick cast.       Target Non-Mage enemy creature.         Level 1 Mind. Level 1 Holy.

Place a stun marker on target creature.


Not sure if this is weak or powerful. Like a combo fumble/stumble. I've also seen a forcemaster use mind control just to lock a creature for two turns.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 10, 2015, 01:19:42 PM
Here's a real nasty idea.

Dark-Mind

2 mana. 4X reveal.            Enthrall.          Enchantment. Curse.
Range 0-2.        Quick cast.       Target Non-Mage enemy creature.         Level 2 Mind. Level 2 Dark.

Unique.

Enthrall may only be revealed when enchanted creature is inactive.

You control enchanted creature. When Enthrall is destroyed, destroy enchanted creature. X = creature's level.


Like the idea, but I think it may need more oomph. Flavor idea is that you used dark/mind powers to simultaneously destroy a creature's mind and replace it with your will.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 11, 2015, 12:46:02 PM
I can tell you up front this is a strange mix.

Arcane-War

8 mana.            Deployment Matrix.           Conjuration.
Range 0-1.        Quick cast.       Zone.         Level 1 Arcane. Level 2 War.

2 Armor.
7 life.

Zone exclusive.

Once per round, you may teleport a friendly creature 1 zone in the direction of your choice by paying mana equal to its level.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 13, 2015, 01:30:23 PM
nature-holy has been done before, but this should be good.

Nature-Holy

13 mana.            Devoted Soldier.           Creature. Soldier
Range 0-0.        Full cast.       Zone.         Level 1 Holy. Level 1 Nature

1 Channeling.
1 Armor.
10 Life.

Familiar.

Sword Slash. Melee. 3 dice. 1 piercing.

Devoted Soldier may only cast enchantments targeting himself.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 14, 2015, 10:50:29 AM
Not terribly useful in a number of cases, but I expect it will be quite useful in a pinch.

Dark-War

5 mana.            Unholy Frenzy.           Incantation.
Range 0-2.        Quick Cast.       Target Non-Mage Creature.         Level 1 Dark. Level 1 War.

Target creature receives Bloodthirsty +4 until end of turn.



Balancing trade offs: unlike power strike, the target must attack a damaged living creature if it can, and only gets the bonus when it does. In return you get the bonus for the turn and twice the bonus in one cast.

Flip side of balancing occurs when you target an opponent's creature. They get the bonus, but can be tied up with any damaged living creature you care to sacrifice. Especially dodgers. This makes for important tactical plays where you don't want an enemy creature breaking off an attack to come after you.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 11:49:23 AM
This could be useful. Shuts down curse builds a little strongly, though. Still a wise dispell target for dark mages.

Holy-Arcane

2 mana. 3 reveal.             Asyra's Favor.           Enchantment.
Range 0-2.        Quick Cast.       Target Creature.         Level 2 Holy. Level 1 Arcane.

Upkeep +1.

Enchanted creature is Curse immune. It ignores all effects and conditions from attached curses and can not be targeted by curse spells.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 15, 2015, 11:51:40 AM
That's a very bad idea. Three mages make use of curses with the Warlocks relying on them heavily. While a temporary respite from curses might be feasible straight up making them immune is a bad idea. Yeah it'd be a Dispel target but again how many Dispels do you have versus the number of good buffs I got?
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 12:24:18 PM
Relying entirely on curses is like relying entirely on flame damage. Not a great idea. Maximum of 4 creatures spared at an upkeep of 4, and wizards already have the ability to tear apart curses for good. Still, it can easily be reworked.

I was thinking of making it a unique spell. Does that help? I would take some real convincing to drop immunity entirely, and I'm a necromancer main.

Maybe upkeep X and curses can be attached but do not function with X = # of curses?
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 15, 2015, 12:27:10 PM
If you added Upkeep it MIGHT have some possibility. Maybe. Still that's really nerfing though.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 12:39:52 PM
Most things have answers, and answers to those answers. Invisible stalker is all but damage immune, I would note. But guard markers and final quick cast ethereal attacks are still good ways to deal with it.

The first spell I put up did already have upkeep 1, but can be regeared to work with upkeep X.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 12:46:14 PM
2 mana. 4 reveal.             Asyra's Favor.           Enchantment.
Range 0-2.        Quick Cast.       Target Creature.         Level 2 Holy. Level 1 Arcane.

Upkeep +X.

Enchanted creature ignores all effects and conditions from attached curses. X = the number of curses on the creature minus 1.


There. 6 mana ignores 1 curse. That's about as good as a dispel. Additional curses act as upkeep+1 until Asyra's favor is destroyed.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: sIKE on August 15, 2015, 01:38:22 PM
Use Dissipate...
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 02:15:51 PM
Definitely not using dissipate unless I remove all upkeep and reduce the cost. And probably make it untargetable to boot. It needs to be permanent with a cost or dirt cheap and temporary.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: sIKE on August 15, 2015, 02:43:29 PM
Definitely not using dissipate unless I remove all upkeep and reduce the cost. And probably make it untargetable to boot. It needs to be permanent with a cost or dirt cheap and temporary.
I was thinking this would be a better as a short term solution, so yeah reduce the cost and no Upkeep.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 02:48:40 PM
Holy-Arcane

2 mana. 3 reveal.             Asyra's Favor.           Enchantment.
Range 0-2.        Quick Cast.       Target Creature.         Level 1 Holy. Level 1 Arcane.

Dissipate 3

Enchanted creature ignores all effects and conditions of attached curses. Asyra's Favor may not be destroyed by other spells and abilities.



Here's the alternate. Let me know what you guys think. It can't be purged or destroyed. Enjoy stealing someone's divine favor though.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 15, 2015, 03:40:05 PM
7 combinations left setting aside elements.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 18, 2015, 09:25:11 PM
Mind-Nature

12 mana.            Canis.           Creature. Force.
Range 0-0.        Full Cast.       Zone.         Level 2 Mind. Level 1 Nature.

/armor
8 health

Upkeep 1. Incorporeal.

Crushing Jaw. Melee Attack. 3 dice. Ethereal. +2 vs. Restrained.



Mind could use another creature, especially a non-legendary visible one. Between nature and Mind, there are tons of holds and vines to make use of, so I figured this type of mage would be heavy on ensnarement. More health per mana than stalker because it's visible, less dice because non-legendary and because of its damage boost, ethereal because it just seems right. It is a mind creature, even if it isn't mind exclusive, so even a forcemaster could run it.

Would love to make a spell that lets a mind-nature hybrid drag ensnared targets from zone to zone, but that will have to come later.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 19, 2015, 09:57:42 AM
Another opposite matchup. Very similar to previous spells, but with a helpful twist.

Holy-Dark

7 mana.             Siphon Life.           Incantation. Vampiric.
Range 0-2.        Quick Cast.         Target 2 Corporeal Creatures.         Level 1 Holy. Level 1 Dark

Roll 3 attack dice and deal the result in damage to one of the targets and remove an equal amount of damage from the other. Both creatures must be in the same zone.


Really dislike that vampiric is healing so far and wanted a spell that blurred the line a bit more between life and death. This bypasses finite life, so the living feed off the dead and the dead feed off the living. I know that it kills zombies pretty quick, but it also heals them quickly.

Edit: I done goofed. Meant to make it incantation instead of an attack.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 19, 2015, 11:01:25 AM
I feel confident Mind will get more creatures when it gets another Mind Mage. With the Force Master however I'd argue she's good. She's fairly well geared towards beat sticking and without a spawn point that means her creatures are all full actions to bring out. More options wouldn't hurt though I admit.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 19, 2015, 12:10:26 PM
Right. It's not like she needs psylok. It'd just be nice if it wasn't the worst creature in the game.
Title: Re: Monstrous Lurker
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on August 24, 2015, 11:14:04 AM
Mind-War.

8 mana.            Force Pummel.           Attack. Force.
Range 0-1.        Quick Cast.       Creature or conjuration.         Level 1 Mind. Level 1 War.

Attack. Ranged. 3 dice. D8+ Daze. Double strike. Ethereal.

This attack is affected by Melee+ instead of Ranged+. If Force pummel would daze a target with a daze condition on it, stun it instead.


Little tricky on this one. Hopefully it is balanced.