Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: DeckBuilder on December 09, 2013, 08:37:37 PM
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Ok, it's late over here and I really shouldn't be posting.
But I thought I'd share a half-formed Druid spell book and ask for tips from those who have actually played her.
Because this is sadly all theory craft as finding copies of DvN here in the UK seems to be difficult.
Druid (Vine Tree build)
4 Raptor Vine (12)
4 Thornlasher (8 )
4 Vine Snapper (8 )
1 Kralathor (4)
2 Harmonize (4)
4 Bear Strength (4)
4 Rhino Hide (4)
1 Barkskin (2)
1 Decoy (1)
1 Vine Tree (2)
1 Etherian Lifetree (2)
1 Suppression Orb (4)
2 Mana Flower (2)
4 Bloodspine Wall (4)
4 Tanglevine (4)
4 Corrosive Orchid (8 )
4 Nightshade Lotus (12)
1 Leaf Ring (1)
1 Enchanter's Ring (1)
1 Sunfire Amulet (3)
1 Dragonscale Hauberk (3)
1 Elemental Cloak (2)
1 Healing Wand (2)
1 Mage Wand (4)
4 Rouse the Beast (4)
4 Dispel (8 )
1 Teleport (4)
1 Renewing Rain (3)
It's the obvious "vine range remote control" build with a Teleport Wand, keeping enemy beyond Dissolve range.
Rouse the Beast as Spawnpoint deployment is so telegraphed, unarmoured and you want to ambush that turn.
Orchid is key against control which relies on Mage Wands, as well as any Lash of Hellfire and Fireball Wands.
Lotus is key against prevalent Few Big including elite flyers like Lord of Fire (or a Flame Hellion reaper).
The Flowers also serve as extra free attacks which help concentrate damage in your Tangled Vine Pits.
Against Warlock or Fire Wizard, you may bind Rain instead, more suited for remote fire fighting/mass healing.
Everything else seems quite obvious. This worries me that the Druid is like the Forcemaster. Her plant spells and abilities are so niche that there is currently only variants of one obvious way to build her. I hope not.
Anyway, this is me humbly (!) asking for advice and constructive criticism from those more experienced than me in playing the Druid.
Everyone has to start somewhere and this is my first untested draft. Please advise where I've gone wrong.
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I'm not big on Vine Snappers myself. It looks like your plan is to use Teleport wand to keep your opponent in that zone, but if you ever lose your wand your Vine Snappers will be useless. I'm not using any in my current book. I do think it's important for the Druid to take at least one non-plant creature, just so everything she casts won't be vulnerable to flame damage. I'm using Galador, who additionally has that nice stun/daze attack.
I would definitely include a few dissolves, even with Corrosive Orchids. Using the Orchids to destroy equipment can get expensive fast, and you won't always have the mana to afford it. I would take out a couple Orchids and replace them with Dissolves.
A second armour would probably be good as well, even if it is just Bearskin.
Perhaps think about making room for an Acid Ball or two (or four) as well; it can help soften up a big target like Adramelech or the enemy mage for your vines. Power Strike isn't that bad either; a couple times it's been the difference between getting a Growth Marker on Kralathor and the enemy creature surviving. Also, try for another teleport?
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Oh, 4 Nightshade Lotus seems like a bit much to me, especially with the number of builds that run only non-living creatures (Necromancers and Iron Golem/Ooze Wizards in particular). I dropped down to two in my book.
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Good points, Aylin.
I was going for the "Druid uses vine markers to remotely battle" concept, Thornlashers dragging enemies into Vine Pits, Flowers for extra concentrated firepower, Teleport Wand augmenting concept, the sedentary plants keeping the Druid safe in her forest. But it just seems too slow.
Evolution following feedback...
-4 Snapper (-8)
+1 Galador (5) vs. incorporeal, flyers, heavy armoured
+1 Tarok (3) vs. flyer weakness
-2 Lotus (-6)
-2 Orchid (-4)
+1 Elemental Wand (4)
+1 Force Hammer (4) vs. conjurations
+1 Acid Ball (1) vs. armour
+1 Surging Wave (1) vs. burn, guards
-1 Suppression Orb (-4)
+2 Mana Flower (2) for 6 zone exclusives
+1 Regrowth (1) for Galador or Tarok
+1 Falcon Precison (1) for utility
-1 Renewing Rain (-3)
+2 Dissolve (2)
+1 Hawkeye (1) for Wand or Galador
The build therefore stands at...
Druid (Vine Tree build)
4 Raptor Vine (12)
4 Thornlasher (8 )
1 Kralathor (4)
1 Galador (5)
1 Tarok (3)
2 Harmonize (4)
4 Bear Strength (4)
4 Rhino Hide (4)
1 Regrowth (1)
1 Falcon Precision (1)
1 Hawkeye (1)
1 Decoy (1)
1 Barkskin (2)
1 Vine Tree (2)
1 Etherian Lifetree (2)
4 Mana Flower (4)
4 Bloodspine Wall (4)
4 Tanglevine (4)
2 Corrosive Orchid (4)
2 Nightshade Lotus (6)
1 Leaf Ring (1)
1 Enchanter's Ring (1)
1 Sunfire Amulet (3)
1 Dragonscale Hauberk (3)
1 Elemental Cloak (2)
1 Healing Wand (2)
1 Mage Wand (4)
1 Elemental Wand (4)
4 Rouse the Beast (4)
4 Dispel (8 )
2 Dissolve (2)
1 Teleport (4)
1 Force Hammer (4)
1 Surging Wave (1)
1 Acid Ball (1)
The problem is I can't help but feel I can build a better Nature mage with Straywood.
I guess you have to experience her in game play to appreciate her strengths; I can't wait.
Any other feedback?
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I would keep 1 or two Vine Snapper. They make formidable guards for your important conjuration (they only cost 7 mana but hit like 13 mana creatures).
Also, use an Idol of Pestilence against living creature. It doesnt hit your conjuration and all plants has Regenerate to heal the damage.
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I'm not big on Vine Snappers myself. It looks like your plan is to use Teleport wand to keep your opponent in that zone, but if you ever lose your wand your Vine Snappers will be useless. I'm not using any in my current book. I do think it's important for the Druid to take at least one non-plant creature, just so everything she casts won't be vulnerable to flame damage. I'm using Galador, who additionally has that nice stun/daze attack.
Good points, Aylin.
I was going for the "Druid uses vine markers to remotely battle" concept, Thornlashers dragging enemies into Vine Pits, Flowers for extra concentrated firepower, Teleport Wand augmenting concept, the sedentary plants keeping the Druid safe in her forest. But it just seems too slow.
Evolution following feedback...
-4 Snapper (-8)
Whoa; don't lose the vine snappers. They are the Druid's most efficient attacking creatures (7 mana for an attack of 5 with piercing! 6 mana with leaf ring!). The druid absolutely does not need teleport wand to make them effective; just pair the vine snappers with thornlashers and/or restrain enemies after they are finally dragged (kicking and screaming, no doubt) into their zone. Vine snappers also make good guards for your valuable trees. I would cut down on Raptor Vines instead; it is unlikely that you will be casting 4. Also, why no stranglevines? The Druid's ability to weaponize conjurations is (in my view) one of her greatest strengths. Suppression Orb is also a good thing to include, since your opponent will almost certainly be moving more than you will.
Edit: what Wildhorn said, but with even more vine snappers. 4 is a good number.
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Whoa; don't lose the vine snappers. They are the Druid's most efficient attacking creatures (7 mana for an attack of 5 with piercing! 6 mana with leaf ring!). The druid absolutely does not need teleport wand to make them effective; just pair the vine snappers with thornlashers and/or restrain enemies after they are finally dragged (kicking and screaming, no doubt) into their zone. Vine snappers also make good guards for your valuable trees. I would cut down on Raptor Vines instead; it is unlikely that you will be casting 4. Also, why no stranglevines? The Druid's ability to weaponize conjurations is (in my view) one of her greatest strengths. Suppression Orb is also a good thing to include, since your opponent will almost certainly be moving more than you will.
Edit: what Wildhorn said, but with even more vine snappers. 4 is a good number.
I tried using Thornlashers to pull enemies into the same zone as Vine Snappers, but I wasn't impressed with it. 33% chance to fail outright, plus it won't work on anything unmovable (Iron Golem, mages with Eagleclaw Boots in particular), and if the Thornlasher dies you also lose the effectiveness of your Vine Snapper aside from Teleporting.
The Raptor Vine only costs 2 more mana, but that gives the ability to move (for 1 mana but that does give more tactical options) and Vampiric at the cost of Piercing +1 and Devour (neither of which I care about that much). I just find them superior and I've regretted the times I've summoned a Vine Snapper.
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The problem is I can't help but feel I can build a better Nature mage with Straywood.
I guess you have to experience her in game play to appreciate her strengths; I can't wait.
Any other feedback?
To me the main attraction of the Druid is the Vine Tree, which is in my opinion one of two spawnpoints currently in the game worth using (the other being Battleforge). She can have action advantage on turn 2 without needing to use a battleforge strategy, which is the main attraction for me.
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Druid is my favorate and she has never die in any of my games. She is a beast. I have tried several different builds all with success. Obvious some better than others. Druid is not limited to one style of play. My main tree is vine tree but have used ito with samara and life tree. Once i used all three trees. Here some idea i have used. Sniper druid deck. Use vine markers to hinder. Gravikor to ground fliers. Grimson on a tower with hawkeye. Samara pod deck. Use with vine tree and meditaion amulet. With two spawn points use your full action to meditate for more mana but this is a long slow build so use vine markers tanglevine and stranglevine to occupy your opponet. Battle druid deck is when i arm her with a scimitar bear strength barkskin and several other nature enchantments. With 4 or more armor cobra reflex and effectively regeneration 4 and a sunfire amulet she is virtually impossiblie to kill. I feel her weakness is not doing enough dmg so All my druid decks have several tangle and strangle vines wall of thorns corosive orchids and burst of thorns. Now im working on a new druid deck using fellella. Dont limit the possibilities. My friend in our last game played a priest. One round he summone a powerful angel. The next round he shock us by summoning adremeleck. Angel and devil in the same book. Experiment is the key and its fun.
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Some questions/observations:
1) How often do you use all of your copies of Rhino Hide or Bear Strength?
2) Given how static your game is, Fortified Position and/or Mohktari seem like good area buffs?
3) Where do you find enough space for 4 mana flowers and a Vine Tree?
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Just noticed this Alex.
This was an old thread I started before I actually got DvN (late here in the UK).
It embarrasses me to read it now that I've played her.
Teaches me a lesson not to put half-formed ideas up for public humiliation!
The build has evolved once I realised just how multi-purpose Acid Ball was
Also that Wand Control may work with a Wizard but not with any other Mage
Wands are too much upfront mana and action cost in builds without a Forge
So they had to go. Also I discovered how amazingly good Vinewhip Staff was.
To answer your question, in my very limited experience:
1. I had no problems playing all 4 Bear Strengths on my Raptor Vines
1. Rhino Hides were to defend Plants vs. Swarms that should wolf pack a target.
It synergies with Enchanter's Ring, a nice defensive surprise, stacks with Barkskin
2. I do agree that Fortified Position is useful in any sedentary build
But 1 Dispel and you've just lost 6 spell points and all your armour
Also it was not a Plant Pit build, more aggressive hence the Roused Raptors
I could copy Golem Pit's Transfusion trick but my local meta would table flip
The stationary Bastion approach may even probably use a Meditation Amulet
I can't believe I'm considering that piece of junk but respected posters use it
It was made for the Druid with her Vine Tree able to remote vine cast as well
2. Mokhtari is for animals, I add Regrowth to Tarok or Galador, Barkskin on self
Healing Wand is simply my morbid fear of conditions on Druid, animals and plants
3. Maybe the 4 Mana Flowers is too much but 6 zone exclusives is not too greedy
They only cost 4 with Ring (Tree summons creatures), usually payback before killed
It was a Druid quick action (moving, not meditating) but it attracts enemy attention
I don't expect them to stick around so some will replace, I like them with the Druid
Anyway, even before I played my first game with her, I think I changed the build to:
DRUID (Vine Tree build)
CREATURES (32)
4 Raptor Vine (12)
4 Thornlasher [8]
1 Kralathor (4)
1 Galador (5)
1 Tarok (3)
ENCHANTMENTS (16)
2 Harmonize (4)
4 Bear Strength (4)
4 Rhino Hide (4)
1 Regrowth (1)
1 Hawkeye (1)
1 Barkskin (2)
CONJURATIONS (20)
1 Vine Tree (2)
1 Etherian Lifetree (2)
4 Mana Flower (4)
4 Bloodspine Wall (4)
4 Tanglevine (4)
2 Corrosive Orchid (4)
EQUIPMENT (14)
1 Leaf Ring (1)
1 Enchanter's Ring (1)
1 Sunfire Amulet (3)
1 Dragonscale Hauberk (3)
1 Elemental Cloak (2)
1 Vinewhip Staff (2)
1 Healing Wand (2)
4 INCANTATIONS (30)
4 Rouse the Beast (4)
4 Dispel [8]
2 Dissolve (2)
4 Teleport (16)
ATTACKS [8]
4 Surging Wave (4)
4 Acid Ball (4)
Yes, I have an unhealthy obsession with 4 (it's a magic number in another game)
It's partly because they neatly fit on 1 page in a spell book, appeals to my OCD! :)
I really do not know how to play the Druid - I currently play very few normal games of MW
Also my natural inclination leans more towards the Necromancer, I just love his spellbook
As mobile Druid, I rely on Acid Ball then 2 Bear Raptor Vines to neutralise Deathlock/Tower
But maybe I'll need to go back to Elemental Wand + Force Hammer of the prior build above
While I do consider myself pretty good with a Wizard, I'm a complete newbie with the Druid
So if anybody has any pointers on what works well with the Druid, please feel free to share
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The thing about Meditation Amulet is that it repays your invested mana faster than any other channeling boost in the game. It has a steep cost, but it has unique power.
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Yes - the druid should absolutely have a meditation amulet. I also recommend at least 3 corrosive orchids, if not 4 - not for the dissolve, but simply for their ability to combo with most of the rest of your cards and their conjuration-timed attack.
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Yes - the druid should absolutely have a meditation amulet.
I absolutely disagree with you here. One of the best things about the Druid is that her spawnpoint has an amazing range and can cast a wide variety of spells, giving her an action advantage against opponents. Giving up that action advantage for ~2 mana per action seems like a huge waste. Also in certain matchups she needs her full action to cast non-plant creatures.
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I totally agree with Aylin here. An action is too precious.
Yes - the druid should absolutely have a meditation amulet.
I absolutely disagree with you here. One of the best things about the Druid is that her spawnpoint has an amazing range and can cast a wide variety of spells, giving her an action advantage against opponents. Giving up that action advantage for ~2 mana per action seems like a huge waste. Also in certain matchups she needs her full action to cast non-plant creatures.
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An action is really important, that is WHY she should have the amulet. In cases where she doesn't have the mana to cast three or more spells, I would rather meditate than do nothing at all. A wasted action is a big set back.
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I am not suggesting that the Druid should base her strategy around meditating every turn; but due to her potential for an absurd action advantage, I often find that my druid has nothing particularly useful to do with her personal action, especially during times when my spawnpoints are using up all of my mana. This is also an excellent reason to run seedling pods (even without Samara tree). No need to waste a perfectly good action. Perhaps you will have a game where you are so pressured that there is no time to meditate, but for 2 spellpoints I see little reason for the druid to deny herself the option of doing so when she needs to.
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The problem I have with meditation amulet is that in order to make it worth it, you have to meditate at a rate greater than once every three turns. That's why I don't find the arguments about occasional turns where you're doing "nothing" with your action convincing. If you only meditate rarely, you would have been better off with a Moonglow Amulet or (even better) a Mana Flower. You'd get more mana out of it and would still have your full action to say...move twice to be in a better position next turn, or guard for the counterstrike against an expected attack.
If you meditate more often than one turn in three, but less than every turn, you're also not getting much of a return on your investment. At one turn out of two every full action spent meditating gives you only 1 mana over a simple +1 channeling. At three turns in five you make 4 mana over the +1 channeling, so each full action gave you 1.333 mana. At two turns in five each full action only gives you .5 mana. On the higher end, if you meditate two out of every three turns you make 1.5 mana for each action spent. And at max, when you meditate every turn you only make 2 mana per action spent. I'd honestly prefer a 3-die attack than any of those; think of it as Voltaric Shield in reverse.
I prefer the Sunfire Amulet over the Meditation one. The +1 Life every upkeep seems to unnerve opponents more than it should, especially when they think about the Druid's amazing regeneration and easily-applied armour.
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In my best games with Meditation Amulet, I used it nearly every turn. To do this requires a spawnpoint or familiar. Without another source of spell actions you'll fall terribly behind, and have no access to movement or summoning. It also helps to have some way of blocking targeting, either Cloak of Shadows, a wall, or just long range.
Basically, if you can structure your play so that the game is determined by who has more mana, then Amulet is the clear winner. If it starts to matter who has more actions, Amulet is a waste.
It's also helpful to have ways of spending large amounts of mana in a short time. If your book is filled with cheep spells and no extra actions, you can get stuck with 20+ mana and no really efficient way to spend it at a critical moment.
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The problem I have with meditation amulet is that in order to make it worth it, you have to meditate at a rate greater than once every three turns. That's why I don't find the arguments about occasional turns where you're doing "nothing" with your action convincing. If you only meditate rarely, you would have been better off with a Moonglow Amulet or (even better) a Mana Flower. You'd get more mana out of it and would still have your full action to say...move twice to be in a better position next turn, or guard for the counterstrike against an expected attack.
If you meditate more often than one turn in three, but less than every turn, you're also not getting much of a return on your investment. At one turn out of two every full action spent meditating gives you only 1 mana over a simple +1 channeling. At three turns in five you make 4 mana over the +1 channeling, so each full action gave you 1.333 mana. At two turns in five each full action only gives you .5 mana. On the higher end, if you meditate two out of every three turns you make 1.5 mana for each action spent. And at max, when you meditate every turn you only make 2 mana per action spent. I'd honestly prefer a 3-die attack than any of those; think of it as Voltaric Shield in reverse.
I prefer the Sunfire Amulet over the Meditation one. The +1 Life every upkeep seems to unnerve opponents more than it should, especially when they think about the Druid's amazing regeneration and easily-applied armour.
Actually, you just need to medidate once every 4 turn to be even with moonglow amulet(up to 8th turn).
Meditation: Cost 4, two meditation = 2 mana over
Moonglow: Cost 6, 8 turns later = 2 mana over
Then if you meditate a 3rd time, you are good to go up to 11th round which in my local meta is 1 round after one of the two mage is dead, so meditation amulet can be quite better.
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The Druid and Meditation Amulet
Ok, the Procrastination Amulet (as I call it whenever an opponent brings it out) is very relevant to any Druid build. This is because, if it is not good enough for the Druid, with her Spawnpoints and her vine range spells, then it is just not good enough, what I call Fool's Gold.
We can all see the Necromancer was designed for 2 basic builds, predominantly zombies or predominantly skeletons, and for each of them, you have 3 tempos based on spawnpoints: 0 (e.g. my fave Brute Squad, Altar corner), 1 (usually Libro) or 2. Yes, Battleforge can be another option and there are rogue builds.
I suspect the Druid was designed similarly here but it is less obvious. You have defensive and aggressive. And then you have choice of Vine Tree or Vine Tree + Samara Pyramid Mana if the match-up is good (e.g. Wizard Mana Denial) or other spell action sources (Felella or 6SP on a Forge).
Now I suspect a defensive build plays Vine Snappers and lots of Attack Flowers (as well as usual vines) because it plays slow land grab, terraforming the arena. In such a long game strategy, where you've built a surfeit of spell actions you can't even use (why did you up-front invest in them in the first place?), I can understand why Meditation Amulet could be useful for the Druid.
However, I contend at least 50% of books you meet will be "Go For The Throat" aggro builds. Because that is how you beat slow burners like Druid or Necromancer who outpace you if you dare play Mid Range. Against those builds, any investment in economic infrastructure is at risk and even if you use the Druid's incredible resilience to repel them, it's too late, they have literally Scorched Earth and your game plan is in tatters. However, if an opponent is so foolish as to leave you alone while you stationary Meditate, I can see how it outproduces the opponent to win you the game. But more fool him/her for not attacking the moment he sees you set up your Alternate Spell Actions + Meditation Amulet infrastructure.
Can Meditation Amulet be good for an aggressive strategy? One argument is that you get the $3 right now up front, not $1 every day. If cashflow is the issue, why invest in it? That $3 can only be spent on the next Deployment by a Spawnpoint, by which time you would have had $2 via alternative means ($4 for a Flower)! So if urgency is the issue, that $3 can only be spent on your post-Meditate QC. I don't buy the cashflow argument because that leads to No Mana Augmenter aggro builds, creating Actions that destroy your opponent's Economy.
This game is actually a business game in disguise (sorry to destroy the illusion). You have an Income, you Invest in many Assets, plan a Return On Investment to derive an anticipated Lifetime Value. Your opponent tries to reduce that Lifetime, make your Investment unwise, or at least less productive than his own Investment (everything is relative in Life; "you don't need to outrun the tiger, just your companion"). I was going to write a follow-up to Resources that described the levers in this business game and how to optimise your Business Model. But with me getting more personal satisfaction helping to develop the game, that will have to be on a back-burner (maybe if they wanted a series of "heavy" S&T articles to appeal to snob intellectual gamers but I don't think deconstructing a game is good; in my experience, tearing down the curtain may bring short-term enlightenment but rarely brings long-term happiness).
Now in business, there is a calculation known as Net Present Value, the depreciation of Revenue over time due to a Discount Rate which is, in an over-simplified nutshell: "what could I earn if I invested differently?".
In Life, everything has an Opportunity Cost with Time, Money and Expertise as our basic Resources. This is no different in games, in fact it is starkly highlighted in games which simplify the complex decision-making we have to make all the time in Life.
I'm currently arguing a certain Novice spell is "meh" therefore its inclusion in the next set has Opportunity Cost on the limited cards in the set. Because players will not include it because its weak effect, even for 1 SP, is an Opportunity Cost on a 120 budget. This Opportunity Cost becomes even more obvious with a Highlander decision ("there can only be one"). For example currently the game has 3 excellent Cloaks in Elemental, Shadows and Suppression. A new Cloak in a new set will have to be just as good otherwise it is a waste of space. The same goes for Amulets because Moonglow is so good. However any Helmet with a minor benefit will be used by Forge builds. That is a stark example of Opportunity Cost and Market Gap Analysis.
And with the Procrastination Amulet, you have to think about the Opportunity Cost.
Option 1
Meditation Amulet (-4) / Meditate (+3)
Every turn you Meditate, you then gain 3
The equation is simple:
Action Investment = 1 QC + X Full Actions
Mana Revenue = 3X - 4
You are literally a sitting target but you have QC and Spawnpoint to develop your game
Option 2
This Druid build opens Leaf Ring, Vine Tree
Turn 2, Tree spawns a Raptor Vine, Mana Flower, Harmonize Tree
Instead of Meditating, I develop my game exactly as above and plant 4 Flowers turns 2-5
Now I have a +4 mana per turn Revenue Stream with no action cost
I Invested -4 x 4 and my Revenue increased by 1 each turn
Action Investment = 3 QC + 1 move/quick spell action (for 4 Mana Flowers, Ring is a given)
Mana Revenue = -16 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 x Length of Game less first 5 turns = 4 x (Length -5) - 10
Of course my Assets may be destroyed
But that is an Opportunity Cost for the opponent who invested in an Asset and Time to do so
I just don't get how Meditation Amulet can be good for the more aggressive Druid build.
And this is a more aggressive Druid build as it assumes the opponent wisely won't give me time!
And if he nevertheless does, well I'm going to disrupt his plans by being the quicker tempo player.
This build is about Druid positioning herself. With initiative, you spawn a Raptor at vine range. First action Druid moves 1 to 2 behind new Raptor and casts Bear Strength on it. Raptor gets attacked then you QC Rouse the Beast and its Bear Strength Vampiric attack hopefully regains some health back (unless of course against a Nonliving build, with only Lifetree to help you). You can't apply mobile pressure like that while meditating.
Deathlock or Wizard Tower Fireball comes out and the Druid needs to move, position herself to Acid Ball the conjuration while sending 2 Raptors against it to "one round it" as a mana sink. The opponent's mage moves to behind his guarding Knight of Westlock? The Druid needs to move to cast Surging Wave on the guard to let the Raptors attack.
In short, as a naturally aggressive player (except when I'm playing with my food as a Wizard), the sacrifice of mobility is just too much for such meagre benefit which you can simulate in mana production in a far less action intensive and sustainable way.
I am very inexperienced playing the Druid (but I've beaten her a few times). So I am perfectly happy to be told that this Druid spell works and this doesn't. But Meditation Amulet is a Resource Exchanger and I can analyse mechanics like that pretty well with my Eurogamer background. I cannot see how Meditation Amulet can ever be better than "what you could have done instead" as long as you can plan your Mana Supply. In a way, it is a "I can't be bothered to plan my mana 2 turns ahead" piece really, it reduces game choice as you opt for a brute force mono strategy of spawning plants and vine spells, a strategy that a good opponent should spot, predict and counter.
If your opponent allows you to win the Mana Game by leaving you alone while you Meditate cross-legged under your Tree, that's more a reflection on your opponent's understanding of the game's heuristics than the strength of the Meditation Amulet.
Kich, ACG, Zuberi, such respected posters, - I just don't get it!
Maybe this is like sIKE's anecdotal evidence on Piercing and this is a reflection on your opposition?
Because, from hard card analysis, it's not as bad as Gate To Hell (what could be?) but it's not good.
Sorry guys, I'm with Aylin, gw and Wildhorn on this one.
(I'm more surprised nobody has questioned Sunfire Amulet in the build - for Barkskin, Treebond etc)
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The problem I have with meditation amulet is that in order to make it worth it, you have to meditate at a rate greater than once every three turns. That's why I don't find the arguments about occasional turns where you're doing "nothing" with your action convincing. If you only meditate rarely, you would have been better off with a Moonglow Amulet or (even better) a Mana Flower. You'd get more mana out of it and would still have your full action to say...move twice to be in a better position next turn, or guard for the counterstrike against an expected attack.
If you meditate more often than one turn in three, but less than every turn, you're also not getting much of a return on your investment. At one turn out of two every full action spent meditating gives you only 1 mana over a simple +1 channeling. At three turns in five you make 4 mana over the +1 channeling, so each full action gave you 1.333 mana. At two turns in five each full action only gives you .5 mana. On the higher end, if you meditate two out of every three turns you make 1.5 mana for each action spent. And at max, when you meditate every turn you only make 2 mana per action spent. I'd honestly prefer a 3-die attack than any of those; think of it as Voltaric Shield in reverse.
I prefer the Sunfire Amulet over the Meditation one. The +1 Life every upkeep seems to unnerve opponents more than it should, especially when they think about the Druid's amazing regeneration and easily-applied armour.
Actually, you just need to medidate once every 4 turn to be even with moonglow amulet(up to 8th turn).
Meditation: Cost 4, two meditation = 2 mana over
Moonglow: Cost 6, 8 turns later = 2 mana over
Then if you meditate a 3rd time, you are good to go up to 11th round which in my local meta is 1 round after one of the two mage is dead, so meditation amulet can be quite better.
As a Druid, you'd be more likely to use Leaf Ring and then a Mana Flower, or at least just the Mana Flower over the Moonglow. Costs less both in terms of mana and spellbook points.
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That's a very in depth write up, DeckBuilder, with good points and I greatly appreciate the insight. My counter argument is going to be considerably more succinct.
Meditation only works in conjunction with a spawnpoint or familiar to replace your action with. That way you are still getting two spell casts per round, but are generating a lot more mana. It is a slight tempo loss, but only from the casting of the amulet and the spawnpoint/familiar to set up the engine. I don't think of the meditation as losing an action, because that action has been replaced. It is simply extra mana to work with. And if I have the mana to do so, I can make up tempo by occasionally foregoing my meditation to take an extra action.
Whenever I play a spawnpoint without the amulet, I feel I have more actions than I can efficiently utilize. Mostly because of lack of mana.
I haven't actually played the druid yet, so I have nothing specific to her to add.
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My thing with Medidtation Amulet is that to maximize it, you have to build around it. Using it as a mana engine to fuel something to replace your full actions is not something you can just toss into a build, the build has to be designed with it in mind. So for it to be viable, you have to crutch on it more than I care to in most builds.
This means if someone spends 4 mana to dissolve it, you end up having wasted your time. You spend a quick action to cast it, and a full action to not break even… then have it destroyed, you have to either re-cast and re-channel, or just force you build to push on without the intended mana generation source.
At its low mana cost you can even afford to Explode it out from under the enemy.. all in one spell you get an attack, a burn chance, waste 2-3 of their actions, and disrupt the core mana engine of their current strategy. Not a bad way to spend 10 mana.
My other annoyance with the amulet is that its one of only 2 Mind cards in the set.. and the Forcemaster has absolutely no use for it. She has to be on the move and commit full actions to melee attacks, and has precious few actions to spend. I hate when the mage with least need for a card are the ones trained to use it.
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I will grant you both points. Forcemaster has no use for it, and it can be a bit of a crutch. But I don't think it is as useless or bad as some people would have us believe. It just has a fairly narrow nitch.