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Author Topic: Tempo: an in depth look,  (Read 9475 times)

The Dude

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Tempo: an in depth look,
« on: March 15, 2013, 05:44:55 PM »
Mage Wars is an incredibly interesting game in that most of the strategy in the game is in the spellbook design. Once the game begins, most of your thought is in the tactics. In order to clarify and delve into what exactly this means, we first need to define the difference between strategy and tactics.
   

Most card games are strategy games. If you look at RftG, GtR, M:TG, etc., you are planning what you are going to do in future turns in order to win the game. This is strategy. You are using resources you have (be it actions, mana, gold, stone, wood, etc) to not only do what you can on your turn, but to use what you did to plan a better outcome in a future turn, than just gaining a single resource, or gaining just one VP.
Mage Wards is similar to other Deck Building card games in that you want to channel your build towards a specific strategy in the most efficient way possible. You probably aren't going for a mana denial strategy with a Warlord because it costs a severely inefficient amount of spellbook points. But this is where MW stops going down that same strategic path. To explain that, let's look at deckbuilding strategy in M:TG. you can add any card in your deck, as long as you have at least 60 cards in your deck and only 4 of each copy. Mage Wars allow you to only have one copy of a spell that is always accessible.
If we examine further into deckbuilding strategy, we delve in the abstract concepts of card advantage and mana curves, both of which are vital to the success of any given M:TG deck. With the lack of card draw present in MW, these two key elements are eliminated for a more tactical mechanic of having a set amount of mana gained from the beginning of the game and allowing the player to choose and play any 2 spells they have in their spellbook. This limit is due to game mechanics, unlike in M:TG, where you can play as many spells as you have in your hand (and that you can pay for). This interestingly enough, is the reason infinite combos can't work in MW (at least for now). But I'm digressing. This nonlimit to number of spells cast is what makes them more efficient in M:TG than creatures. By allocating actions to the creatures instead of just the mage, MW offers a different sort of card advantage, which I will attempt to coin as action allowance. This means that the more creatures you have, the more actions you can take, which in turn represents a better opportunity you have to gain an advantage over your opponent.
But what actions you have available are important, as well. Having an attack action available with one bitterwood fox is strictly worse than having an attack action with a gorgon archer, assuming you can hit. So how do you decide what actions are strictly better in any given situation than in another situation?
This is the reason MW is a game of tactics more so than strategy. What you do directly affects what your opponent does will directly affect what you do. This is where I offer a better comparison than that of MW and M:TG.
This is one other game that I really study and have found the reactive dynamics just as important as those found in MW. Hive is an abstract strategy game that is often incorrectly compared to chess. Hive almost a strict game of tactics, in which you are constantly reacting to what your opponent does. Now, there is more strategy than in MW, but it is a reactive sort of strategy, rather than offensive.
So, if you are doing nothing but reacting to what your opponent does every turn, how are you going to win? I'll give you a hint: It's important, even critical, in MW, hive, AND M:TG. Got it? It's tempo. The key to not reacting and to start action is through tempo advantage. Tempo is defined as the pace of the game. So, tempo advantage is where you as the player dictate what the tempo is. By controlling this, you are effectively controlling what your opponent can do, or will do, to win the game. This is the key to winning the game no matter what mage you are. When you gain that tempo advantage is decided by how you design your spellbook strategy.
If your build is aggressive, you want that temp advantage in the early game, to try and finish them off before the reacting mage has the chance to gain the advantage back.
If your build is more of a combo/conjuration build (in M:TG called midrange), you want to gain that tempo advantage as soon as you are built up enough that you don't have to worry about your engine being broken. This can be done earlier or later depending on what you need to set up. An interesting tactic to employ with this build is to let your opponent deal with a highly destructive creature while you set up. This can allow you to gain that tempo much earlier than is usual with this midrange sort of build. This can save you tons of resources while at the same time causing your opponent to spend valuable resources to try are rid himself of your beast.
What if your build is one of control? This is the hardest build to play (along with aggressive strategies), because you have to survive long enough to swing the tempo in your favor. The most efficient way to do this is to have your spells be both reactive and active at the same time (AOE spells, reverse attack/magic, traps, teleports, etc.) This is best done through mana denial. You need all of this reactiveness, because you most likely won't be gaining that advantage until the late game.
Well, I have game waiting for me, so I think I will retire for the week. But next week, I want to talk about different builds and how they will specifically act and react. Thank you so much for reading, and if you have any thoughts about what I should add, or if you don't agree, please, feel free to tell me. And if you like what you are reading, share what you think, and I would love to keep writing for the MW community!
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Preacher

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 05:49:22 PM »
Well, I for one enjoy reading well thought out thoughts and strategy articles like this, keep them coming!

I also happen to agree with you, dominating action advantage and tempo as you put it, is key to winning regularly.

Doma0997

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 07:37:11 PM »
Quote from: "padawanofthegames" post=9151
Mage Wars allows you to have as many (or as few) copies of a card as you want. You want 12 timberwolves? I can get you 12 timberwolves by 3 PM. With nail polish.


While I understand the post is about tempo, I just want to point out that the above is not true except in casual games. You are only allowed six copies of a level one spell, four of anything higher, and one of an epic spell. Otherwise, ever onward.

DarthDadaD20

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 07:58:16 PM »
This was a good read! If I had Geek Gold to give you I would. (I have none, :( ) Tempo is a huge factor in this game and you are dead on with it being actions as the main tempo base for mage wars. This is a very different beast from most games, I can "Gold fish" (That means playing solitaire basically) in MtG and know how good my deck will be. I can also plan ahead almost to the end of the game without much concern on what my opponents deck is. If I know the meta, im going to win.(Or play control and just keep them in their first stage the whole game! Yes I love control, and yes I hate me too.) This is not the case with mage wars. You can memorize basic strategies much like chess, but if you dont react to the opponent, you are going to lose.  Just throwing my two cents in.
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The Dude

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 09:34:50 PM »
Quote from: "Doma0997" post=9159
Quote from: "padawanofthegames" post=9151
Mage Wars allows you to have as many (or as few) copies of a card as you want. You want 12 timberwolves? I can get you 12 timberwolves by 3 PM. With nail polish.


While I understand the post is about tempo, I just want to point out that the above is not true except in casual games. You are only allowed six copies of a level one spell, four of anything higher, and one of an epic spell. Otherwise, ever onward.


Thank you mate! I fixed it so that it is rules accurate!
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Tacullu64

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 09:56:59 PM »
A worthy topic to explore and a good read too.

malgor

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 11:05:27 AM »
Great thoughts on the importance of tempo.

One of the consistent mistakes I see new players make (somewhat related to tempo) is a failure to get their mage out of the action when playing an aggressive player.  

Your strategy of bringing a creature out to keep them busy works with just about any tactic against a newer player IMO.  Too often mages will stand 1 or 2 zones away and get pounded by an attack spell once a round because they need full actions to summon creatures to fight whatever big baddie I throw at them.

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 11:44:51 AM »
Quote from: "malgor" post=9196
Great thoughts on the importance of tempo.

One of the consistent mistakes I see new players make (somewhat related to tempo) is a failure to get their mage out of the action when playing an aggressive player.  

Your strategy of bringing a creature out to keep them busy works with just about any tactic against a newer player IMO.  Too often mages will stand 1 or 2 zones away and get pounded by an attack spell once a round because they need full actions to summon creatures to fight whatever big baddie I throw at them.

And that is why I will quick cast Push on myself!  ;)
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
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The Dude

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 01:22:09 PM »
But do you see how even that will waste tempo and momentum? Instead of building or attacking, you are having to use an offensive spell (or should be) to buy yourself five life. Granted, it may be more, but you are giving the opponent mage more of an opportunity to set themselves up to strike harder, and faster. If you are in that position, it might be better to turn that creature to stone, or daze/stun him. That way your opponent is losing tempo while you are gaining the slightest edge. Heal spells are a lot like they are in M:TG, which is to say they are massive tempo losses, unless you are building your spellbook around that. To tie this all together, you could of any defensive spell as a "heal" of sorts. You can have a spellbook full of heal, but as soon as you run out, you aren't going to win... believe me, I have found that out many times through MW and M:TG.
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reddawn

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 04:16:26 PM »
I'm not so sure that healing carries the same negative connotations in MW as it does in MTG.  While there are certainly more efficient methods of preserving your life total, like summoning creatures that can both attack (help win you the game) and guard (stop you from losing), those more efficient ways don't guarantee results due to how guarding works with ranged attacks and traits like Elusive.  A Heal spell, while costing an action AND mana, does guarantee results (assuming average dice rolls) and sometimes, buying a turn or two of time is indeed what you need.

Also, MTG is notorious for its infinite combos, which essential make life totals and thus life gain meaningless for the most part (varies by format).  There are also other ways to win the game other than damaging your opponent, unlike in MW.  MW's sole win condition and the concept of channeling helps the cause of life gain.  There's a reason why most solid books include a couple lifegain spells; they're perfectly justifiable in MW for an emergency, unlike in Magic where a spell that only gains life, that doesn't have any combo potential, would never see competitive consideration.  This also has to do with the fact that in MW, you get the spells you need exactly when you want them, whereas in Magic you're lucky to see 1/4 of your deck much less all of it, so the last thing you want is a healing spell at the wrong time instead of a spell that could actually win you the game.

I think healing on higher level creatures is especially good.  Creatures that are above level one are very hard to kill instantaneously with attacks, unlike in MTG where you can pretty much snap your fingers to kill or counter creatures.  This is probably the best example in which healing is truly an investment into you winning the game, since you're basically spending magic to gain additional actions with your creatures.  The Priestess in particular gains action advantage in this way, as well as with her ability to remove action-reducing conditions.  Vampiric Strike and Vampirism are also two cards that allow more aggressive books to remain on the offensive with minimal mana and action investment towards keeping creatures or your mage alive.

Overall, I think you're right; healing yourself all the time isn't really the best plan unless you're under heavy duress.  Healing creatures, or using healing traits like Vampiric, on the other hand, I think is very legitimate.
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malgor

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 04:46:36 PM »
excellent post reddawn.  I played a lot of MtG but it was about 13 years ago, so I'll take reddawn's word for that part of the analogy.

for me, movement is the other thing.  In MW you can use board movement to be completely out of range and gain rounds where you are safe for attack to use your mana.  As I said before, many mages make the mistake of wanting to stand toe to do and trade blows.  In a situation like this, healing is really dumb for basically every reason padawanofthegames pointed out.  

Healing is really useful when you're down to the end of your life or if you have a high level creature you want to keep alive.  The turn order, quick cast, and combos that allow board movement are all factors that don't make healing a waste. You CAN buy time in mage wars, especially if you use initiative properly as you activate creatures.  

Aside from all that, there is also an entire character (Priestess) dedicated to using healing to turtle and outlast her opponent.

Overall I agree with all the thoughts on tempo, i just think healing may factor into that a little differently than suggested by padawanofthegames

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 06:03:48 PM »
Your point on how initiative affects healing is pretty spot on.  While healing is far more powerful in MW than in MTG,  it's not nearly as good if you don't have initiative.  Or, if you're like myself and play the Warlock heavily, the same goes for Poisoned Blood or a fire spell for the killing blow.  When you factor in how Nullify and Jinx affect initiative, you start to see just how important pretty much every decision you make is.  

Just a tidbit of advice in terms of preserving creature tempo; you usually want to summon them when you do not have initiative (creatures enter the arena inactive anyway).  That way, on the following turn when you do have initiative, you can effectively protect your creature with a Nullify quickcast before you opponent has a chance to Sleep or otherwise mess with your beast.

This is also why I like Rouse the Beast a lot and usually put at least one in books.  While the above tactic is probably the safest way to ensure you get an uninterrupted use out of your creatures, it does start to become predictable (the opposing mage might prepare redundant spells to get around your Nullify).  Rouse the Beast throws a wrench in that predictability for a very low cost.  It's especially good if you have more creatures than your opponent AND you do not have initiative, since you can then effectively get two uninterrupted rounds of actions with your summoned creature (you'll have the initiative next round to prepare the Nullify).  RtB also doesn't slow down your tempo; in fact, you gain 2 actions for the price of one, so your net gain for tempo is still positive (+1 action).
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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM »
Thank you for giving me more of a perspective on healing. I do think you are correct in that healing can be effective, but I cannot deny that it also does open you up to losing tempo. Healing differs in MTG in another way, too: it's not a static amount. I've seen plenty of minor heals that heal 2 to 3, instead of the average, which is five. When you take into account that in the mid to late game, a good player won't be swinging for less than 10d per turn, it really isn't as effective, and is especially hurting to tempo.

I do love RtB, though, it was actually one of the cards I was going to talk about next week, along with charge, and battle fury, all of which can swing the tempo in your favor incredibly.


And initiative is also a really funny thing... most games, when I see that I am playing against a less aggressive deck, I will usually give first initiative to them. I have found that against build decks, they will not be doing anything but setting out crystals and conjurations, so you can play a creature, and then you gain initiative in the second round, where you can really start to go at them. It almost seems counter intuitive to not want to go first, but I have found that not going first can really let you scope out what your opponent is doing, so that when you do go first, you can get the jump on them.
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Kytan

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 02:27:02 AM »
Two things I would like to mention. One great topic and writing I've been making a warlord deck that leans heavily on keeping tempo advantage longer against slower and/or control decks and gaining and keeping tempo advantage against aggressive builds.  It uses cards like RtB, battle fury, and charge so I can't wait to hear your thoughts on them, keep it up.

I'd also like to point out that healing high armor creatures/Mage is much more efficient than attack and damage spells.  This only applies to high lvl high armor targets but if your opponent fireballs ur 3 armor  creature and you minor heal your 3 armor creature, on average you will break even or heal 1 damage but will have spent 3 less mana.  I guess it just depends on the target you are healing. Choose wisely and you can gain tempo and mana advantage.

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Re: Tempo: an in depth look,
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 01:00:07 AM »
I'm pickin up what you are puttin down and I dig it man! I definitely think that armor plays a factor into the efficiency of a heal spell. But even then, you can't just look at armor... you have to look at what this all boils down to, and that's what the creature does to harm your opponent in a way that will make him retreat, rethink, and recuperate. As soon as he has done this, if you can take maximum advantage of this, he will die. So, do I think healing your 3 armor bobcat with 4 die of attack is as good as healing your vampiress? Not at all, but, it's what gives you that edge. Dig?
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