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Author Topic: Mind Control and PET  (Read 9009 times)

Moodiz

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Mind Control and PET
« on: March 14, 2013, 01:26:33 AM »
What happens, if I take control over the Beastmasters PET? Does it immediately lose the PET-marker because the bond is broken? (that would make much sense to me thematically/logically)
Or does the creature keep the PET-markers benefit although the missing link to the BM? And if it loses the PET-status, what happens, when the BM regains control over that creature? Since the PET-marker can only be placed on a creature that just came into play, he couldn't re-make it his PET, right? (we had a long discussion during the last game and i gave up for the evenings peace - so after regaining control it was his PET again...)

If that's the case, Mind Control would be a (not cheap, but at least a) way to deal with the PETS. Or at least it would be a nice side-effect... ;)

(I got rid of it the next round by playing the mordoks obelisk/mind control-combo... ;) !BANG! You can't pay for that look in his eyes...  :ohmy:
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Shad0w

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 07:26:11 AM »
Its is still the BMs pet. This is done for simplicity because like you said if a MCd it and then the BM got it back later it would cause even more problems.

I hope that helps
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baronzaltor

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 04:18:38 PM »
The best part of mind controlling the BM's pet is that it still gets +1 Melee for being in the same zone as its beast master...even though its attacking him and not defending him in this case.

Same with a mind controlled blood reaper... the warlock will still heal himself for 2 points even if you attack him with his own reaper.
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Shad0w

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 08:10:57 AM »
Yup baron is correct
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yo_predator

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 03:47:47 PM »
In my opinion, mages' abilities that grant a creature special status (like Beastmaster's Pet or Warlock's Blood Reaper) should also give that creature the "Mage Only" trait (ex. Beastmaster's Timber Wolf Pet will have "Beastmaster Only" trait), thus making them immune to Mind Control. This will prevent some absurd situations and make it a little more thematic (for example, the Warlock's Blood Reaping Firebrand Imp is unique and different creature than the other Firebrand Imps in his army).
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Shad0w

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 10:11:31 AM »
They do not for a few reasons but I cant say why for now..........Sorry
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Arcanus

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 11:13:18 AM »
They (pets) currently do not gain the "Mage Only" trait.  Mind Control is a bit expensive unless the creature has some enchantments on it (or a Pet marker).

We certainly can make a ruling so that Pets are an exception. However, we prefer to not make a change unless it is necessary, and we have a consensus amongst the players. Lets keep an eye on opinions coming in and revisit in a few weeks.  Thanks!
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baronzaltor

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 06:08:52 PM »
Quote from: "Arcanus" post=9234
They (pets) currently do not gain the "Mage Only" trait.  Mind Control is a bit expensive unless the creature has some enchantments on it (or a Pet marker).

We certainly can make a ruling so that Pets are an exception. However, we prefer to not make a change unless it is necessary, and we have a consensus amongst the players. Lets keep an eye on opinions coming in and revisit in a few weeks.  Thanks!


I think Mind Control has enough red tape on it at current to leave it as is...  
 
high upkeep
stuns target when cast
cannot be shifted
must be within 1 zone to reveal
can only be revealed between action steps
set introduced a brand new free-to-reveal psychic counter spell

Personally I have no problem with ForceMaster mind controlling pets and reapers.... or to state the other way I dont like Pet/Reaper being a built in hard counter or a way to negate mind control for the best creature in your arsenal.  (ie the most enticing target)

Also though, Mind Control doesnt say anything about the target creature having to be one that the FM could normally cast in the way that steal equipment or steal enchantment does, so would "mage only" stop it?
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Aidyzappiar

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 08:39:01 PM »
As per the FAQ's rules clarifications on Restricted Spells it would indeed stop it. If a spell is restricted to a particular Mage or school of training you cannot use or control that spell unless you are a Mage of the said type or trained in the corresponding schools. In fact there is an example using Mind Control in the FAQ's. I quote: "The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Mage Only trait."
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Aidyzappiar

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2013, 08:06:55 AM »
Oh, and I'm ok with you being able to mind control a Pet. The only thing I find a little non thematic is the extra Melee +1 the Pet would get "when in the same zone as his Beastmaster." Perhaps that could be rephrased to "when in the same zone as his controlling Beastmaster."
The Blood Reaper still healing the Warlock while being mind controlled makes more sense thematically to me because he was the one making the sacrifice and the dark pact after all, not the Mage controlling the Mind Control.
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shapeshifter

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2013, 08:28:57 AM »
I would not object to a pet or blood reaper gaining corresponding "mage only" traits.

It feels right with me, also its not like the beast master isnt going to churn out other critters for mind controling, or waste a ton of spell book points.
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Shad0w

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2013, 08:35:04 AM »
The problem here is should the theme take precedence over the rules or should the rules take precedence over the theme.

I am a fan of rules over flavor for simplicity sake.
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DaveW

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 10:33:43 PM »
A corollary please: If the BM's pet is mind controlled (or otherwise made useless or worse), may the BM then remove his pet marker and reuse it on a different animal soon to be summoned?
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baronzaltor

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 12:45:38 AM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=9293
The problem here is should the theme take precedence over the rules or should the rules take precedence over the theme.

I am a fan of rules over flavor for simplicity sake.


In my mind, it IS in flavor though.  

A Beastmaster has a favorite fox, so he imbues that special fox with extra powers, and in his presence said magics stronger.  A forcemaster takes control of its mind.. those powers and embuings don't go away.  The beast master gave this creature a magical boon, and its being used against him which is incredibly in flavor of the forcemaster.... to me its no different in theme or flavor than mind controlling a creature with bear strength on it.   Just because the creature has been tricked into thinking the beastmaster is his enemy doesnt mean those magical gifts no longer work.

Same with the Warlock.  He creates a link with a reaper so when that demon draws blood and he heals himself, and makes the creature ravenously blood thirsty.  The fact that a mage who specializes in psychic dominance overrides its will doesnt break that link, or make it less blood thirsty..it still wants to feast on blood and that link still feeds the Warlock 2 health (even if it was 6 damage worth his own blood).
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Shad0w

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Re: Mind Control and PET
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 07:11:52 AM »
Quote from: "DaveW" post=9323
A corollary please: If the BM's pet is mind controlled (or otherwise made useless or worse), may the BM then remove his pet marker and reuse it on a different animal soon to be summoned?


Under the current rules the pet needs to die before you replace it.

@ baronzaltor
If you truly care about what you made would you not try to gain it back?
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