Questions on Steal Equipment and Mind Control

[Skytale]

Hi, I have a couple of rules questions that came up because of new cards in the expansion.

1) When a spell has a phrase like "Forcemaster Only" or " Mind Mage Only" are these restrictions that apply only to the spells that you are allowed to put in your spellbook, or are other mages forbidden from controlling (or equipping) these cards as well? For example, could a wizard cast "steal equipment" on a forcemage's Galvitar and equip it themselves? Also, can a wizard cast "steal enchantment" on a "mind control" spell, thereby gaining control of "mind control" as well as the creature it was cast on? If a forcemaster steals a warlock's mage wand that had "drain life" bound to it, could she use it?

2) How does "mind control" work when cast on familiars? Can you use them to cast a spell that was set aside for them by their original owner? What if the spell is bound, as in the case of the thoughtspores?

[DarthDadaD20]

spells that are restricted to a specific class of mage, (Mage class only or School type only) may not be included in your spellbook or cast unless you are playing that type of Mage. If you use steal equipment on a equipment card, and the caster is not the Mage class printed on the card it is not a legal target, and can only be destroyed.(As the spell limits equipping and targeting) Same with shift enchantment and mind control, unless the caster is a Force Master as well, you are not a legal target.(As the spell shift enchantment limits equipping and targeting) Every spell must be cast at a target. You may select the target only if it matches the requirements listed on the spell you are casting. Some spells may target objects with particular traits or subtypes. As for spellbind, the spell would stay bound to it. As for mind control, you are the caster for mind control, but are not the caster for the creature. If someone can make that a bit more clear...I would appreciate it! And I hope to have been of some help.

[Shad0w]

From forcemaster-vs-warlord-spoilers

I fell most of the time if my opponent has something I want to use its often specific to a mage type

that makes me wonder, the mage specific limitations are always grey... so are they only limitations to deck building? does that limitation carry over once the equipment is in play?

Limits equipping and targeting

[DarthDadaD20]

:blink:  But not mind control, that doesnt make you the target, or the controller of the creature..just of mind control.  :silly:  I was trying to show why as well. Thanks shad0w.

[Skytale]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Is the "limits equipping and targeting" thing in any of the printed rules? The only reference I was able to find was on page 36 of the version 2 rules under "Spell Traits That Affect Your Spellbook:

Some spell traits affect how you may add those spells to your spellbook. These traits are colored grey on the spell cards, to help you identify them when building your spellbook. These traits normally have no affect during the game, and can be ignored during play.

But then under "School of Magic Only" it says: Some spells can only be cast by a Mage that is trained in a specific school of magic. You may only include these spells if the Mage you are playing has the proper training.

So can a priestess cast drain life from a captured wand? The first text would seem to imply "yes" and the second, "no".

In any case, if those trait lines do limit "equipping and targeting", the limitation on equipping seems straightforward, but I am still confused on what it means to limit targeting. If I understand correctly, it sounds like you are saying (for example) that it is OK for a non-arcane mage to take control of Huginn (with mind control), but not OK for a non-forcemaster to take control of mind control (with steal enchantment)? I'm not sure I see why there is a distinction between the two.

edit: I do see now that "steal enchantment" also seems to require you to move the enchantment to a new target, which you specifically can't do with "mind control". Is that making it "unstealable", even by a forcemaster? Or can the "new legal target" for the enchantment be the same as the original target, meeting the requirement on the "mind control" card.

[DarthDadaD20]

Thats the whole thing...its that steal enchantment/equipment says "Target". and to answer your questions.
No, the priestess cannot cast drain life from a wand.
The distinction between mind control and shift enchantment is that Shift enchantments card text says "Move to Target."
As for shifting Mind control, as long as you follow all the rules stated on the card, you can take it.
This is quite a complex situation, but like I said, its the Shift card saying "Target" that makes the need for a legal target.
Edit: The card mind control says, You control target creature. And that must make you the controller.

[Skytale]

OK, but if you can "mind control" a familiar, than it opens up a whole range of other questions.

What happens to the spell the familiar's owner set aside for it? Can the new controller look at it? Can he have the familiar cast it, aiding with his own mana? Or does the spell get discarded, or put back in the owner's spellbook? What if the spell is bound to the familiar, as in the case of the thoughtspore? Does the spell stay on it?

[Dumbfire]

@shadow I would appreciate some explanation to the rational (ie rules/reference) to why:

"Limits equipping and targeting"

Much appreciated.  Thanks!

[DarthDadaD20]

OK, but if you can "mind control" a familiar, than it opens up a whole range of other questions.

What happens to the spell the familiar's owner set aside for it? Can the new controller look at it? Can he have the familiar cast it, aiding with his own mana? Or does the spell get discarded, or put back in the owner's spellbook? What if the spell is bound to the familiar, as in the case of the thoughtspore? Does the spell stay on it?

You set the card beside the familiar so the spell would stay on there, you can use its mana. If you cast it, you would be the caster. As for spellbind,it would stay bound. Im basing this off of stealing a bound wand, and what makes sense to me.

[Arcanus]

Here is the latest excerpt from our FAQ which should be downloadable tonight:

Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to a particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1)   Placing that spell in that Mage’s spellbook when building their spellbook before the game begins.
2)   Controlling or using that spell during the course of the game.

Examples:
•   If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
•   Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
•   If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot use cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but the wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new spell to it.
•   The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control a Huginn, Raven Familiar because it is Wizard Only.

[DarthDadaD20]

Well, you can take Goblin Builder!
Mind control threw me off a bit. Since it says, you control target creature,I will admit it makes perfect sense that if you control the creature, you are now the controller, but I would of thought that it would of said."You are now the target creatures controller." Not You control target creature. I thought that with that wording, it ment you controlled it (like only controlling its actions, not that it switched over to your control).... but where not the controller. Thank you Arcanus.

[Arcanus]

No problem. I had to admit we had some internal debate on those Mage Restrictions. It truthfully was not clear in the rules!

[Skytale]

Thanks once again, Arcanus. That clears up a ton of stuff.

The only questions I would have remaining on these "theft" topics would be:

1) Not technically stated anywhere that I can find, but is it safe to say that if you steal an object with a face-down bound spell that you gain the right to look at the card?

2) Since you still seem to be able to mind-control the goblin builder, can we say that the prepared spell can be looked at by the new controller and cast as long as it's allowed (i.e. not Warlord only)? If it's not cast, would the prepared spell automatically go back into the original owner's book at the end of the round?

3) With "steal enchantment", does the "new legal target" have to be a different target than the original target? Since we now have enchantments where control of the enchantment alone matters. Take "charm" for example: say two forcemages are fighting and there's only one creature on the board. One mage charms it, can the other mage "steal enchantment" the charm so as to switch who the creature is allowed to attack? Can you steal a zone enchantment like "fortified position" and leave it in place, just switching whose troops get the armor bonus?

[Arcanus]

You are most wlecome.  your other answers, right from the new FAQ:

1)  If an item with a bound spell is stolen (such as with the Steal Equipment spell) the bound spell is stolen along with the item.  If it was a face down spell (not revealed yet because it had just been bound) the new controller may look at the spell. The new controller may cast that spell, as long as it is not restricted for their Mage school or class. For example, the Priestess cannot cast a Drain Life spell bound to a Mage wand. If later the bound spell is changed, it is returned to its owner’s spellbook.

2) You cannot take control of creatures which your Mage is restricted from.  For example, the Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar, which has the Arcane Mage Only trait.
If you take control of a familiar you are legally allowed to control, you take control of any spell which was planned for it to cast (unless that spell is restricted from your Mage class or school, in which case it is immediately returned to the owner’s spellbook instead). You can use the familiar to cast that spell, and you will have control of that spell after it is cast.  Alternately, you can change out the spell on a future planning phase, at which time it is returned to its owner’s spellbook.

3) Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you are restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
When you cast Steal Enchantment, you can re-target the same target the enchantment is currently attached to. For example, you may want to take control of a Charm spell, and put it back on the current target creature. You must pay the casting cost for Charm to be placed on that same target again (as described on the Steal Enchantment spell).

[Hedge]

Here is the latest excerpt from our FAQ which should be downloadable tonight:

Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to a particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1)   Placing that spell in that Mage’s spellbook when building their spellbook before the game begins.
2)   Controlling or using that spell during the course of the game.
Examples:
•   If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
•   Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
•   If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot use cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but the wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new spell to it.
•   The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control a Huginn, Raven Familiar because it is Wizard Only.

The bolded line needs to be added to the Rulebook. as the rule book states that traits in Grey can be ignored for game play aspects.