An upkeep phase question.

[Gus_Sin]

Hi, I have a question regarding the order of execution in the upkeep phase.

We had a game yesterday where in the upkeep phase my opponent had 1 life and a burn condition on him. I had 3 life and a burn. And there is a Idol of pestilence that is going to deal 1 damage to both of us. So we both take 1 damage and he dies and I'm down to 2 and then I roll for my burn and, of course, roll a 2, and I'm down to 0 health as well.  So is this a draw because all this is considered simultaneous? Or did the game ended when he died to Idol? Does the fact that he had initiative come into play (like maybe he could have made me resolve all my events first)?

Sorry if this has been explained before.

Thanks in advance.

[LumberjackJim]

From Page 11 of the Rulebook:
"You always choose the order in which events that affect your creatures and objects occur during this phase. In the rare case that a timing issue occurs, the player with the initiative decides the order."

The second sentence would lead me to believe that the person with the initiative has the right to decide who takes their damage first if they know they are going to die.  Personally though, I'd rule it a tie and have a good laugh about it.

[Arcanus]

Ha!  Wow - that is an awesome battle and the first time I have heard of such a grand finale!  You should post that on our facebook page!

When there is a timing issue, the player with initiative decides. However, that rule was put in place for resolving anomalies, where it is necessary to resolve one effect before another, otherwise a weird iteration occurs.

I have to agree with LumberjackJim - this feels like a draw.  Perhaps we should create a FAQ - if both Mages would normally die in the same Phase (a game phase like Upkeep, or an Action Phase), then the game is considered a draw. Please let me know your thoughts on that.

[krj]

for me it also is a draw. it was in same phase. for me it happens simultaneously. if i should choose i would rather thought that person with initiative has to resolve it's damages first.

[Drealin]

I would have to call it a draw.
Normally everything in Upkeep happens at the same time.

One way it might not have been a draw would be if you were a Warlock with initiative, and had at least 1 curse on your opponent and had Moloch's Torment.
In this scenario you would get to deal the 1 damage from Moloch's Torment first before resolving anything else.
Of course, realistically you would see your opponent die only seconds before you die, so it would probably still be considered a draw by the spectators.

[Gus_Sin]

Thanks for the replies. I agree that it should be a draw. Maybe we can put a statement like "During upkeep, game can only end once all upkeep events take place.'

I would have to call it a draw.
Normally everything in Upkeep happens at the same time.

One way it might not have been a draw would be if you were a Warlock with initiative, and had at least 1 curse on your opponent and had Moloch's Torment.
In this scenario you would get to deal the 1 damage from Moloch's Torment first before resolving anything else.
Of course, realistically you would see your opponent die only seconds before you die, so it would probably still be considered a draw by the spectators.

Just curious why would I get to do that first?

[Paleblue]

I was on the other side of the game which Gus is describing and it felt much more sportsman like to shake hands and call it a draw. Fine for a casual setting, not sure what would happen in a tournament though.

[Drealin]

You would get do it first because it would be one of those anomalies Arcanus was talking about that requires you to factor in who has initiative.

The reason for this is because you are affecting the other person's creatures, not your own.  Therefore, the person with initiative gets to decide what happens first.

If everything you do in the Upkeep phase only affects your own creatures, then you ignore initiative.

[Shad0w]

Ha!  Wow - that is an awesome battle and the first time I have heard of such a grand finale!  You should post that on our facebook page!

When there is a timing issue, the player with initiative decides. However, that rule was put in place for resolving anomalies, where it is necessary to resolve one effect before another, otherwise a weird iteration occurs.

I have to agree with LumberjackJim - this feels like a draw.  Perhaps we should create a FAQ - if both Mages would normally die in the same Phase (a game phase like Upkeep, or an Action Phase), then the game is considered a draw. Please let me know your thoughts on that.

I would word it ----- if both Mages would die in the due to the same effect (for example Idol of Pestilence, or a zone attack) then the game is considered a draw.

[Sausageman]

That's interesting - we had a similar thing happen in a game we were playing this weekend.  My opponent had the Tree of Life in the same zone I had a poison gas cloud - so he was regenerating 2 damage and taking 2 damage in the upkeep phase (long story, but I'd trapped him in there behind two Walls of Thorns too...   ).  We ruled they essentially cancelled each other out...

[Drealin]

That's interesting - we had a similar thing happen in a game we were playing this weekend.  My opponent had the Tree of Life in the same zone I had a poison gas cloud - so he was regenerating 2 damage and taking 2 damage in the upkeep phase (long story, but I'd trapped him in there behind two Walls of Thorns too...   ).  We ruled they essentially cancelled each other out...

In that situation your opponent would get to decide which effect happened first, taking the damage or healing.  He would most likely heal first, especially if he was too close to death.  So essentially they would cancel each other out, but technically he should do 1 effect before the other.