Jet Stream

[Aquila]

We've played a game yesterday and one question came up:
What if my mage is standing in one corner of the board, and an enemy flying creature right in front of him, one zone away, next to an arena wall! If i jet stream this creature, and successfuly pushing it, i have the option to chose the direction of the push? With the only restriction, that the pushed creature must be farther away from my mage after the push, than it was just before the push? Is it than possible, to chose the wall as direction of my choice? If yes, with a Hawkeye i will do 8 (!!) dice of damage for 4 mana...

[pixelgeek]

Oddly enough we had this come up last night and we didn't really figure it out at all. What we did rule was that if there was a straight move that didn't go into an arena wall that we had to take it. I would still like some clarification though :-)

Running into a wall is a Bash if the Wall has Passage Blocked trait. That give the creature being bashed an additional 3 dice Unavoidable attack. It doesn't add three dice to the attack that Pushed the creature.

[Aquila]

I don't think that you have to take the straight move! It says: in ANY direction away from the caster! If there's a wall... bad luck  
Otherwise you could never bash a creature that way, because there will always be "an other possible direction" that brings it farther away...
Hmm, but you're right, some clarification would be nice here!  

[pixelgeek]

I don't think that you have to take the straight move! It says: in ANY direction away from the caster! If there's a wall... bad luck  

Yes. In our instance there was an Arena Wall to the side of the creature and two moves away from the caster and also away from the wall.

The issue for me is that if you push a creature "away" from the caster and against a wall the creature doesn't actually move. So that is what I think needs to be clarified. If a push direction would move the creature a zone away as opposed to smashing it into a wall and not moving it what takes precedence.

[wtcannonjr]

We had this come up and we used the Codex on p. 43 as guidance. The second sentence under Push states - "Unless the effects says otherwise, the Pushed creature must move one zone away from the source of the Push." So after reading the spell effect this statement is the first priority to resolve the effect.

In the example above using Jet Stream, this would mean you must select the 'one zone away' option and do not get to bash the creature into the arena wall.

However, if the spell was a Force Push, then the effect allows you to specify a direction and in this case you could bash the creature into the arena wall.

[Aquila]

But than it's impossible to bash a creature into a wall, because there is always an alternative direction than the wall... No matter how you Jet Stream, the creature can always be pushed farther away...

[Archwizard07]

I would interpret the effect as thus:

First Part - Pushing away from the mage is the first part, you select a direction that is NOT towards the casting mage leaving 3 possible directions as diagonals are not viable.

Second Part- in resolving the spell and applying the effect you aknowledge that the chosen direction is blocked by the wall and apply the bash affect or attack affect as appropriate.

My understanding is you do not check targets or locations beyond the first step until resolving the spell; and while the first designation of away may mean that a bash is iminent away is still following the letter of the rule.

Just my two cents!

[wtcannonjr]

But than it's impossible to bash a creature into a wall, because there is always an alternative direction than the wall... No matter how you Jet Stream, the creature can always be pushed farther away...

I did find one situation that you could bash with Jet Stream. If target is in the corner zone and you cast it 2 zones away diagonally, then you cannot move the target one zone and be further from the caster. In this situation the spell would bash the target against the corner wall.

This situation could also occur in combination with conjured walls if you arrange them correctly.

[Aquila]

I can go with that! Sounds realy good to me!
To devide the whole order of events in little pieces and so looking at one after the other, seems a good way! After all, Jet Stream stays a "flying killer" that way...  B)

[Aquila]

But than it's impossible to bash a creature into a wall, because there is always an alternative direction than the wall... No matter how you Jet Stream, the creature can always be pushed farther away...

I did find one situation that you could bash with Jet Stream. If target is in the corner zone and you cast it 2 zones away diagonally, then you cannot move the target one zone and be further from the caster. In this situation the spell would bash the target against the corner wall.

This situation could also occur in combination with conjured walls if you arrange them correctly.

Yes, but how often does that occur...

[Shad0w]

I would interpret the effect as thus:

First Part - Pushing away from the mage is the first part, you select a direction that is NOT towards the casting mage leaving 3 possible directions as diagonals are not viable.

Second Part- in resolving the spell and applying the effect you aknowledge that the chosen direction is blocked by the wall and apply the bash affect or attack affect as appropriate.

My understanding is you do not check targets or locations beyond the first step until resolving the spell; and while the first designation of away may mean that a bash is iminent away is still following the letter of the rule.

Just my two cents!

Very good  - "Push" and "Pull" Spells and effects that do not target were the creature is supposed to go only care that you tried to "push" or "pull" in the correct direction. To be technical about it, you tell the other players that you are attempting to send the creature in the given direction not what zone they are going to.


Now if a spell said push target creature to target zone this would be very different.


I hope that helps

[aravar]

Hi, sorry to bring this thread back to life again, but I wanted to make sure I totally understood what the legal pushes from a jet stream (and other spells that limit your choice of push direction) are. It's come up a number of times in games and I want to make sure I'm entitled to those extra 3 dice if I'm using them.

The question I have is whether it is legal to push a creature into the wall, to get a wall bash, with the effect of jet stream, when there are other directions that would result in the creature moving one zone away.

An example: Suppose the target of jet stream is in the middle zone of a short board edge, my mage is in the close centre zone and the effect die comes up with a push, can I choose to push the creature into the wall rather than one of the corners even though the creature doesn't actually end up further away?

[jacksmack]

Hi, sorry to bring this thread back to life again, but I wanted to make sure I totally understood what the legal pushes from a jet stream (and other spells that limit your choice of push direction) are. It's come up a number of times in games and I want to make sure I'm entitled to those extra 3 dice if I'm using them.

The question I have is whether it is legal to push a creature into the wall, to get a wall bash, with the effect of jet stream, when there are other directions that would result in the creature moving one zone away.

An example: Suppose the target of jet stream is in the middle zone of a short board edge, my mage is in the close centre zone and the effect die comes up with a push, can I choose to push the creature into the wall rather than one of the corners even though the creature doesn't actually end up further away?

codex for push:

Push
Push is an effect caused by some spells and attacks that moves the target
into an adjacent zone. Unless the effect says otherwise, the Pushed creature
must move one zone away in the opposite direction from the source of the
Push. If there is a choice of direction (such as pushing a creature diagonally
opposite, or if the source of the Push is in the same zone as the target), the
source of the Push chooses the direction.Some spells may Push in a random direction. To determine the direction,
choose one side of the board to be “North” and roll the Effect Die: a 1-3
Pushes the creature North, 4-6 = East, 7-9 = South and 10-12 = West.
A creature may be Pushed through a wall, but only if the wall does not have
the Passage Blocked trait. The Pushed creature suffers any attack from the
wall if the wall has the Passage Attacks trait. If a creature is Pushed into
a wall with the Passage Blocked trait, it is Bashed against the wall and
suffers an Unavoidable attack of 3 attack dice. Note the walls around the
outside of the arena all have the Passage Blocked trait. Note that Flying
creatures ignore walls, except for the ones around the outside of the arena.
Some creatures and all conjurations have the
Unmovable trait. They cannot be Pushed and ignore
all Push effects.

Remember forcepush (incantation) always let you choose any direction no matter the position of source and target.

[Zuberi]

An example: Suppose the target of jet stream is in the middle zone of a short board edge, my mage is in the close centre zone and the effect die comes up with a push, can I choose to push the creature into the wall rather than one of the corners even though the creature doesn't actually end up further away?

Unless the effect says otherwise, the Pushed creature must move one zone away in the opposite direction from the source of the Push.

In your example you would HAVE to bash the target into the wall, as you have to push it directly opposite from the source of the Push (your mage). The only time you get a choice in direction is:
a) The card says so
b) You are in the same zone as the target
c) You are standing diagonal from the target

[aravar]

Great, thanks for the clarification. I think I must have been going from the rules in the first version of the rule book.