Beastmaster with no level 1's?

[knutenez]

After watching level 1's get eaten like candy, I've played him this way. It's kinda based on the shock of there suddenly being two grizzlies rolling 7-9 dice each on you with a possible battle fury giving that nine dice caster a double hit. I've won a couple and lost a couple. Before I tweak it again I thought I'd post here, and start the missing beastmaster thread.

Equip: 12 pts
Ring of beasts
Mage wand
Elemental cloak
Regrowth belt
Enchanter's ring
Leather boots
Ivarium longbow

Conjur's: 15 pts
Tanglevine x2
Mana flower x2
Wall of thorns
Hand of Bim Shalla x2
Animal kinship
Rajan's fury
Tooth & nail

Creatures: 31 pts
Emerald tegu x2
Thunderift falcon
Tarik
Steelclaw grizz x2
Galador
Redclaw
Timber wolf x3

Enchants: 20 pts
Bear strength x2
Bull endurance x2
Cheetah speed
Eagle wings
Regrowth
Rhino hide
Mongoose agility
Vampirism
Retaliate
Nullify x2

Incant's: 32 pts
Battle fury x2
Call of the wild
Perfect strike
Dissolve
Heal
Group heal
Minor heal
Purify
Charge
Force push
Dispel x2
Teleport

Attacks: 10pts
geyser x2
Jet stream
Lightning bolt

Now that it's laid out like this, I'm thinking I'm too heavy on incantations.

What do you guys think about it? Give me your worst.  Or, share your builds, too.

[knutenez]

Ok, the title was misleading: thunderift falcon is level 1.

[krj]

i've played MW 5 times, 3 times i've played  WIzard and always won, then last 2 games i;ve played Beastmaster and lost both of them. After those 2 games as a BM I'm also not convinced to use  swarm attack with many 1lvl creatures because they die before they do any harm. Probably I played them wrong :/Also unfortunatelly i don't have card Galalador which could change MUCH MUCH my situation. I realized that i have no creature with ranged attack  and only on weak with Ethreal attack which is very bad. Galador will be very useful, but i cannot get it :/ frustrating....

[pixelgeek]

I think the issue is that the Rush really only works a few times until players learn how to deal with it.

[knutenez]

i've played MW 5 times, 3 times i've played  WIzard and always won, then last 2 games i;ve played Beastmaster and lost both of them. After those 2 games as a BM I'm also not convinced to use  swarm attack with many 1lvl creatures because they die before they do any harm. Probably I played them wrong :/Also unfortunatelly i don't have card Galalador which could change MUCH MUCH my situation. I realized that i have no creature with ranged attack  and only on weak with Ethreal attack which is very bad. Galador will be very useful, but i cannot get it :/ frustrating....

I should have left Cervere on the list instead of Galador since I've never actually played it with Galador, but I don't remember what other card I took out for the exchange since Galador is more expensive than Cervere.

That is pretty lame that you can't get it early. Are you overseas? I had to call my local store and ask them to order the OP kit. He wasn't going to order it because he didn't think there was much interest in the game, but now we're going to start a weekly game this week. Try any store you can, you might be able to find someone who can get a retailer's account.

[knutenez]

I think the issue is that the Rush really only works a few times until players learn how to deal with it.

How do you play him now?

[pixelgeek]

My current plan is to use a set of Level 1 creatures to harass my opponent while I put out a defensive arrangement of a Lair, Mana Flowers and then put a larger creature into play to start dealing out damage to either the Mage or the Mage's defensive structures.

[krj]

i've played as Beastmaster for the third time and finally i've won (yuhuu:P). in game i've used 4 foxes, 2 falcons, Sosruko  :woohoo:  and 2 Emerald Tegu. i've had bigger creatures in spellbook, but smaller ones did the job
my first rounds was sth. like this:
1. Lair with harmonize on it (15+4 / 19mana)
2. Mana flower + Ring of Beast + Fox [Lair] (5+2+5 / 9+3 mana)
3. Mana flower + Falcon or Fox don't remember exactly (my opponent statred to produce small nasty Darkfenne bats and later Valshalla)
in each next round i've tried to put  at least one new creature to the game. Somebody was right that if you are decided to Rush tactics  you cannot stop producing creatures even for a while. i think that was a key

[Fentum]

How do you deal with anti swarm such as Obelisk?

[krj]

he (my opponent) didn't have that kind conjuration in his spellbook. that was his 2nd or 3rd game ever

[reddawn]

Level one animals are useful, but meatier critters need to be the bulk of your force.  Think of the small creatures as attack spells, because that's basically what they are, though they can be more or less flexible.  Most of the time, I just use them to remove guards so the larger creatures can get hits in unopposed.  Any crit damage these small creatures might cause is a secondary concern.

Basically, there are 2 reasons small creatures can't be your mainstay:

1. Too action-inefficient to cast them in bulk
2. Pretty much every mage has access to conjurations or attacks that become extremely action and mana efficient against swarms.

This isn't to say smaller creatures don't have a role.  They're just more useful in a supporting role rather than a leading role.

[sdougla2]

I find that it's generally better to use big creatures on guards, and let the small creatures get attacks through unopposed. The counterstrike from a guard can easily kill a level 1 creature, but it's unlikely to do much to a Steelclaw in most cases. It's better to force your opponent to spend actions and mana on dealing with your level 1 creatures rather than throwing them away. Level 1 creatures need to be treated as expendable, since they're not tough enough to survive significant attack, but treating them as attack spells may lead someone to throw away a level 1 creature they could have retained and gotten more use out of over the course of the game.

[reddawn]

Not sure what kind of guards you play against, but I'd much rather an Iron Golem or Knight or Thorg drop 5-6 dice on my 5 mana Falcon rather than my 21 mana Pet Steelclaw.  I won't lose much if the Falcon dies, but I'll pretty much lose the game if my bear dies. 

[cbalian]

Guards depend on the creature really.  I like the cats for guards (even the level 1 cats) because "all" the cats (I think all of them) have defense so can deflect an entire attack and take 0 damage.  Consider a baby cat like a furry block spell with some claws that can attack back.  They cost about the same amount of mana and are much more versatile (since you can use them to attack and not just as defense).

I see what you are saying about the "big guys" for guards as they put out more dice but there is ways around them (ranged/elusive) OR as easily send a chump lvl 1 to eat the guards attack then go in for the kill. 

I might consider 2 big ones though 1 guard one attack, like a grizzly+galador combo might be a good set up albeit a bit costly.  That is the other nice thing about a 5 mana cost creature, if they kill it you aren't out much and are merely collateral damage, losing your grizzly or something can swing the tide of the game (if not sufficient other back up).

I don't like to put my eggs in one basket and rely on any one or two creatures, too risky, so although I actually only play with a single handful of lvl 1s they have their purpose.  Basically that gets to the question are 2 level 1s of equivilent value to 1 level 2?  I suppose that depends on factors and play style but the harrassment value alone of baby creatures is worth it for me.

[sdougla2]

If you're playing against weak guards (Bobcat) it may make sense to attack with a level 1. Against a powerful guard like Iron Golem, my first choice is to neutralize them some other way, preferably with Tanglevine, but throwing your level 1 creatures under the bus is generally a poor choice. Tanglevine is a much better answer to corporeal guards, since they'll need to waste time killing the Tanglevine or use a Teleport to get out. Either way, it's better for you than throwing a Fox under the bus. Bobcats, on the other hand, may be a good choice due to their defense.

I wouldn't want to waste a Pet Steelclaw attack on breaking through a guard, but a Pet Timber Wolf or a non-Pet Steelclaw attack wouldn't bother me as much. Sure, losing them is much worse than losing a level 1, but it's also much less likely that they'll die. A level 1 will die on average from an Iron Golem attack. A Pet Timber Wolf will take ~3-4 attacks to die, and that's if you don't heal him at all. Of course, you could use things like Block/Reverse Attack/Sacred Ground/Fortified Position to make it less likely that you're level 1 will die, in which case it makes more sense to use them to trigger the guard. Timber Wolves are among the best creatures in a BM's arsenal for triggering guards. They're tough enough that it will usually take 2-3 attacks to kill them, even for powerful guards, they're attacks are relatively weak for their cost compared to Foxes and Falcons, and they're cheap enough that it's not terrible to lose them.

If there is a significant chance of losing a big creature to the counterstrike, or even if it's likely to result in the big creature being weak enough to be taken out with a zone attack, it's probably better to find another way to disable the guard. If the big creature is at full health, it's often better to have them trigger the guard so that you can get other attacks through from creatures that would likely die if they took the counterstrike.

It's all about trying to force my opponent to spend resources to deal with more of my threats, while avoiding situations where they have efficient answers like a zone attack that can kill my big creature and several Falcons. If they kill my big creature, I'm still fine so long as I have my swarm. If they kill my swarm, I'm still fine so long as I still have my big creature. I'm only screwed if they kill/neutralize all of my creatures.