MW arena update 2020

[Boocheck]

I will definetly do the survey! MW was and still is in TOP 5 games that defines me as a player

[Jeffman]

Filled in the survey

[Karadox]

It is probably the right step to start over, but I will take a hard look at it before I think bout to invest any more money. it will be difficult to convert it so that the old cards can still be used. I just have too much money invested in the Old Mage Wars ... not as much as in magic the gathering, but you can play them together with new cards and some are worth a lot of money.
Too much went wrong in communicating with us customers.
I love Mage Wars as a game but at the moment I don't think I Would Buy anything new.

[fas723]

Survey made.

[Kelanen]

So I am excited that I can finally share a little bit more. More importantly, I want to hear from you. We are in the initial stages of developing a new version. Certainly it is true that we want to broaden the player base with this, but we also want to have a game that gives that Mage Wars "feel". This means some things will be new, but backwards compatibility is a significant part of our discussions. Certainly we want to create some extended utility of the products that you already own, but as some have noted, excessive backwards compatibility can create design constraints that lead to unintended consequences and limitations.

That all sounds terrible to me - I'm out. I play a few games every week, and the game just is fine (excellent even), there are only two problems - not enough content, and too much weak content (the costing formulae are wrong in several areas, leading to overcosted cards). Anything less than 100% backwards compatibility makes the exercise pointless IMO (at least for me, and what I want from the game).

Any amount of change you could credibly call a new edition is too much (something on the scale of 4th printing/Arena is fine), there is no need for anything beyond a few errata (maybe a lot with cost reductions), a few rulings being updated and added, and a lot more content. I realise the survey was blue-sky brainstorming, but most of those options? Yeuk... I don't want another 'streamlined' and dumbed down version od anything thanks, nor do I want different ways to play, different arenas, different anything - it's not broke (but it will never be a roaring commercial success whatever). I don't want minis, or online and I certainly don't want anything less complex or shorter (more complex and longer and we can talk, but that survey was horribly biased). I realise that doesn't play to wanting to leverage a shiny new edition for cash, but as opined a while back, this future is much worse than leaving it dead.

None of this is helped by the fact that whilst Mage Wars is my #1 game, I have no faith or loyalty to AW at all - I've got playtest and development credits with lots of games and companies, but I've never tested for such a shambles as AW. As a consumer, it's just worse they make massive misstep over massive misstep... Produce more Arena content, and I'll buy it (if it's not monk garbage, etc), but ask me to set aside my current (and considerable) investment in something that's great despite AW, and then invest in something new from them? No thanks.

Would you please have me removed from the PlayTesting list - I want nothing to do with this direction of travel, it's the wrong solution to the wrong problem as far as I am concerned. Playtesting was largely a waste of time anyway - it was all focused on dumbed down for Academy, the problems were rarely listened to, and bigger problems inserted by fiat post-playtesting anyway...

[zot]

i agree that the survey was biased towards a specific result. trying to make this new version somewhere between academy and arena. wow that would suck so much.  I think in the end they will pretty much alienate most everyone and hope to get completely new players. but the survey being biased they will get results they are expecting or hoping to get.

it is also clear there is demand out there for more arena product. people only bought academy because that was the only thing printed and it was valid in arena. for completeness in arena you had to get 2 copies of each academy release.

personally I would like to see some rules cleanup. some fixes to anomalies in the game that need clarification or resolution. perhaps fix a few broken undercosted cards. and if you have time some of the overcosted cards. then release a new core set of 4 mages for arena.

alt forcemaster, alt wizard, arena elementalist, arena (monk or some other mage).

and then release a couple mages every 9 months or so. seems like it would be super easy to get this sort of thing into print quickly.

then if you want to release something else in the same universe along the bias shown by the survey it would be a completely different game. if that is what you want then do so, but have no illusions about it being mage wars and do not market it as such if there is no backwards compatibility. I would be really mad if I bought something like mw2.0 expecting to be able to use and leverage the money I had already spent on this awesome game only to find out I cannot (and I do not mean zero % but even 10 or 20% or less backwards would be aggravating). if it is backwards compatible it needs to more or less closer to 100%. but that is just my opinion of course.

some people want new things and that is fine, just make a new game and give the demand that is out there for arena something too. no reason why you cannot do both. keep making arena products and whatever new shiny thing aw wants to put out.



 

[DaveW]

I already completed the survey, but got to thinking about something tonight that I thought that I'd post as a kind-of addendum to it.

I am wondering whether a decent approach might be to create a complete, cleaned-up rulebook... and add a section of "optional" or "advanced" rules. These optional rules might include things like customized Mage design, reduction in list of conditions, or whatever you want. That way those who would want to play the game as it currently is simply would not use the additional rules, and others could play in other, equally valid and balanced, company approved, formats.

Each tournament head judge would choose which set of options (if any) to use at a con, but I don't think that that would be a serious issue. It might even be better that way if the community changes its collective mind over time about which set of options it likes best... tournament standards would just change over time with it.

Please don't hate me too much for suggesting this

[Knabbmaster]

i agree that the survey was biased towards a specific result. trying to make this new version somewhere between academy and arena. wow that would suck so much.  I think in the end they will pretty much alienate most everyone and hope to get completely new players. but the survey being biased they will get results they are expecting or hoping to get.

How was it biased? I mean at the very end they asked about keywords and the phase system but aside from that I don't really get how you drew that conclusion. They even asked about adding costumization to mages or adding benefits for standing in the centre zones which would make the game even more complex.

[farkas1]

Yea I think change is just too scary for some. I wish we could go back to more arena expansions but AW has for some reason abandoned It.  I think if we could take the best of everything and almost have a buffet of all the content with playing MW original or MW new edition, or both together it would get the love from past, current, and hopefully a new audience. 

I don’t feel the questions were biased.  It basically gave everyone the opportunity to say which side with either no change, some change, or more changes.  I thought the survey was informative and addresses issues most players have presented to the forums.  Is AW perfect, no but I think for the future of the game, it needs a new version.  Most games don’t stay at 1.0 and survive. 

That said I would be happy to have a new core like Zot mentioned that just addressed some keyword issues and add nothing more but more mages.  I would buy it and it could still have a newness that tweaks the rules a tiny bit and have an updated ruleset to play with the original content.

[ThisIsDeutch]

I realise that doesn't play to wanting to leverage a shiny new edition for cash, but as opined a while back, this future is much worse than leaving it dead.

When you state that this is worse than leaving it dead, through what perspective are you talking about? Through your perspective as a player, or through Arcane Wonders as a company?

Playtesting was largely a waste of time anyway - it was all focused on dumbed down for Academy, the problems were rarely listened to, and bigger problems inserted by fiat post-playtesting anyway...

I think this speaks more about a problem with Arcane Wonders instead of Mage Wars. Not sure if their adoption of Kickstarter as a selling platform is going to change anything, but perhaps it might get them to interact with their fanbase a lot more than previously? They can try to promote some new form of the Ambassadors program for all their games, meaning it won't be for just 1 singular game and would therefore be supported by Arcane Wonders instead of ignored.

it is also clear there is demand out there for more arena product. people only bought academy because that was the only thing printed and it was valid in arena. for completeness in arena you had to get 2 copies of each academy release.

personally I would like to see some rules cleanup. some fixes to anomalies in the game that need clarification or resolution. perhaps fix a few broken undercosted cards. and if you have time some of the overcosted cards.

You've hit the nail on the head: people bought academy in order to supplement Arena content. I think the inclusion of Frost spells in Academy was another sign of Arcane Wonders just no longer interested in releasing Arena content and releasing Academy expansions in order to "hit two birds with one stone".

I also think that this is what Mage Wars needs the most: a rule cleanup. All that you've said (rule cleanup, fix cards) could help remove the plague of card errata discussion that has been affecting this community for the last 6 years.

[wtcannonjr]

Survey completed.

Would suggest someone official at Arcane Wonders post a message with the survey link and news on BoardGameGeek website in Mage Wars Arena page.

[Arkdeniz]

Well, I for one liked the survey and was pleased that AW asked for our input and happy to see the range of questions put in it.

I think MW2 has an opportunity to really consider some of what I see as the central weaknesses to an otherwise awesome game. In particular (and here I spruik my wares), an opportunity to embrace the core premise of the game: "A Game of Duelling Mages", through:
- opening up metamagic spells (the 'toolbox') to all schools
- making all summoned creatures temporary spells. Get rid of the 'my army is bigger than your army, and I will win through more actions' effect.

So more games of movement and spell and counterspell, rather than guarding and spawnpoint churn.

That was my 2c.

[JAM2099]

Giving it a second thought, when most games come out with a second edition or version 2 of a game, the previous version is retired and the new version is the new kid on the block.  Cases in point, all versions of D&D (old versions are still played though), Arkham Horror 3rd Edition (I have everything for previous which is still playable so no desire for the 3rd), Twilight Imperium 4th Edition just came out a year or so ago, Stonghold 2nd edition (improved on the first), Game of Thrones LCG came out with 2nd edition, Kingsburg Second Edition ( I have the first which I personally think is better than the second.) 

Sure, it would be nice to see Mage Wars Arena continue to have new content but with the way the gaming community works, I don't see that happening at this point.  It is more likely to see an all new, all fresh Mage Wars 2.  Call an end to Mage Wars Arena and those who have everything can consider their set complete.  (I wold like to see 1 more Arena expansion to close the deal possibly Arena Elementalist vs Arena Monk.)  Let the new game bring on a new group with new experiences and hope Arcane Wonders have learned from the previous game and make it a success. 

Happy Gaming Ya'll!

[keejchen]

In the interest of keeping the discussion going, Juli and I did a stream on MW2.0. Check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K975ALpWuw

[DaveW]

Almost four hours?! I don't know if I am going to make it through... but I'll try.