Temple of the Dawnbreaker VS Akiro's Favor and Paladin's Challenge

[Santar]

Hi Mages!
How the time-conflict with this cards solves?

Example:
My Mage has the Temple of the Dawnbreaker. He is attacked by enemy's creature with Akiro's Vafor. And?... This is not very interesting example.

Paladin's Challenge is more interesting. So: My mage (Paladin) attacked by the strongest challenged creature (more than 10 attack dices). But I have the temple. So, my enemy roll nice 2dmg dices and some blunks. I want to w8 untill he re-roll this dices and THEN tell him to re-roll all of them. On the other side he wants to w8 my re-roll all dices and THEN re-roll some of them.

What shall we do?

[Zuberi]

I actually think there's currently a contradiction in the rules regarding Temple of the Dawnbreaker and Akiro's Favor. If you read the supplement for both of them, Temple of the Dawnbreaker says that reroll effects have to be done during the Roll Dice step before any other effects can be used, and Akiro's Favor says that it can be used after the Roll Dice step and such. This is a bit hard to reconcile.

If we tried to use these rules as written, then I'd think the Temple of the Dawnbreaker would have to be used first, since Akiro's Favor can wait till after the Roll Dice step has ended. However, I personally think that's really silly. They're the same effect. My opinion, rules as intended, is that they should be resolved in Initiative order. Whoever has initiative can choose to use their effect to reroll. Then their opponent may choose to reroll. If Initiative passes and their opponent rerolls, then Initiative gets another chance to reroll. If both players pass, move on without any rerolls.

Paladin's Challenge doesn't have an entry saying when it applies, so we don't know which of the two contradictory rulings applies to it. Regardless, I'd play it the same way as I described above, resolved by Initiative.

[Halewijn]

If both want to re-roll the dice at the same time, the player with initiative may decide who goes first. However, in this case, neither want to reroll and wait for the other player. You can't force the opponent to use an effect so it would go down like this:

1) The paladin can wait awkwardly long before doing anything, hoping that the opponent is dumb enough to do reroll with the temple of the dawnbreaker.

2) Since his opponent is a smart guy, he doesn't say anything. As a last resort, the paladin asks, "soooo, wanna reroll the dice?", which the opponent doesn't want to do (yet)

3) At this point, the paladin has 2 options, reroll dice, or apply damage.

3a) If the Paladin decides to apply the damage, the defender does not get the chance to reroll anymore. (neither player did anything)

3b) If the paladin decides to reroll with either of his abilities, the defender may choose to use the altar. Since the paladin has yet another reroll ability ready, the same situation occurs as in point "1"

edit, if after step 1 or 2, the defender would reroll, the paladin can of course reroll too afterwards.

[exid]

I noticed this error in the supplement: the text about the temple seems to speek generally ("no reroll after the roll dice step, with any card")...
since we had here a long discussion about this, officially closed on the fact that A's favor can reroll after the roll dice step, I assumed that the text about the temple speeks only about the temple.

[Zuberi]

I noticed this error in the supplement: the text about the temple seems to speek generally ("no reroll after the roll dice step, with any card")...
since we had here a long discussion about this, officially closed on the fact that A's favor can reroll after the roll dice step, I assumed that the text about the temple speeks only about the temple.

If we were going by the rules as written, then I would take the ruling on the Temple as the general rule and take Akiro's Favor as specific only to that card. However, I'm positive these aren't really meant to work differently and at least one of them will be changed to correct the contradiction.

[Santar]

Why you think, that you can use Akiro's Favor AFTER doll dice step? If it is true, then I can reveal it after my bad roll and use. In some topic we talk about it and decided that we can't do it.

[Zuberi]

There were actually a few very long discussions on Akiro's Favor in the forums, and I was one of the people arguing that it shouldn't be able to be used after the Roll Dice step, but the official answer that finally came back from Arcane Wonders was to allow it. So that is what got put into the Official Rules and Codex Supplement. The contradiction between this ruling and the Temple of the Dawnbreaker ruling was missed while updating the Supplement though.

So, yes, you can reveal it after your bad roll. The ruling is that you must reveal it before the Damage and Effect step.

[wtcannonjr]

There were actually a few very long discussions on Akiro's Favor in the forums, and I was one of the people arguing that it shouldn't be able to be used after the Roll Dice step, but the official answer that finally came back from Arcane Wonders was to allow it. So that is what got put into the Official Rules and Codex Supplement. The contradiction between this ruling and the Temple of the Dawnbreaker ruling was missed while updating the Supplement though.

So, yes, you can reveal it after your bad roll. The ruling is that you must reveal it before the Damage and Effect step.

Perhaps the general rule is that Conjuration effects are always face up and timing is known, while Enchantment effects can be revealed at different points in the round so they need more flexible timing rules. So Akiro's Favor is consistent with timing of enchantment reveal rules.

[Halewijn]

The reality is that the ruling isn't as waterproof/consistent on this as it should have been. I also believe the intention is that all rerolling effects are equal, and it should be played like that.

[exid]

and it should be played like that.

like which one?