Titanodon

[Borg]

Situation: ( not saying this is smart play but ... if ... this were to happen )
Titanodon has Ballad of Courage ( Slow and Fast cancel each other out ) and opponent plays Enfeeble on it, giving it slow again.
Ballad drops off, now Titanodon has double slow, which as far as I know has no additional effect besides simply being slow, correct ?
Then a new Ballad of Courage is played. Does this cancel both Slows ? I assume, yes.

[Halewijn]

Yes. Slow is a yes or no question and it doesn't stack. "double slow" does nothing so that enfeeble does nothing during the entire game.

- Titanodon + Ballad: Normal movement
- Titanodon + Enfeeble = normal Titanodon (slow)
- Titanodon + Ballad + Enfeeble = Normal movement (and thus not slow)

Edit: I believe this tread is about this. http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=17393.0

[jacksmack]

Look at what Zombie Frenzy is doing.
Its removing the slow trait.

Fast and slow trait is not removing each other. Instead its cancelling the effect for both so the creature will be normal speed.
It does not matter how many sources that make the creature slow / fast.

[Reddicediaries]

I don't believe that is correct. Zombie Frenzie states lose the slow and lumbering traits and gain the fast trait

[jacksmack]

I don't believe that is correct. Zombie Frenzie states lose the slow and lumbering traits and gain the fast trait

What are you trying to say?

My point is that for a slow creature (no matter if it has slow printed on the card or if it has enfeeble or even both), in order for it to become fast it must lose the slow trait(s) and gain / have the fast trait.

[Reddicediaries]

OH lol, I misunderstood what you were saying. My aplologies.

[Halewijn]

Titanodon has Ballad of Courage ( Slow and Fast cancel each other out )

Correct.

and opponent plays Enfeeble on it, giving it slow again.

Wrong. Still Normal movement.

Ballad drops off, now Titanodon has double slow, which as far as I know has no additional effect besides simply being slow, correct ?

Correct.

Then a new Ballad of Courage is played. Does this cancel both Slows ? I assume, yes.

Correct, normal movement. Is the same as above.

Yes, Zombie frenzy is currently the only card to make a slow creature fast. (without dispelling enfeeble)

[Zuberi]

This should be addressed in the next Supplement update. I'm sorry it didn't make it into the last one, it almost did but Laddinfance and I wanted to look at it a bit more first, which has turned into Ash and I looking at it since he took over. Basically, I'm saying that this has a decent likelihood of changing so don't get too comfortable with the ruling, but for right now Halewijn is correct.

[iNano78]

This should be addressed in the next Supplement update. I'm sorry it didn't make it into the last one, it almost did but Laddinfance and I wanted to look at it a bit more first, which has turned into Ash and I looking at it since he took over. Basically, I'm saying that this has a decent likelihood of changing so don't get too comfortable with the ruling, but for right now Halewijn is correct.

So let me get this straight:

• One instance of Slow will cancel all instances of Fast, making the creature "normal."
• One instance of Fast will cancel all instances of Slow, making the creature "normal."
• A Slow creature cannot be made Fast (i.e. really being able to double-move + take a quick action) without "losing" Slow (e.g. [mwcard=DNI06]Zombie Frenzy[/mwcard])
• A Fast creature cannot be made Slow (i.e. full action to move 1 zone) without "losing" Fast (e.g. no examples of this yet; a [mwcard=MW1C04]Bitterwood Fox[/mwcard] will never be slower than "normal" and, after moving 1 zone, will always be able to take a quick action).

[RomeoXero]

All of these are correct Nano. The last example is what happens when you turn a falcon, a fox, or cervere into a zombie. They have fast, they gain slow, and become normal movement creatures.

[Werekingdom]

Look at what Zombie Frenzy is doing.
Its removing the slow trait.

Fast and slow trait is not removing each other. Instead its cancelling the effect for both so the creature will be normal speed.
It does not matter how many sources that make the creature slow / fast.

So..... the point is to "Raise Again" Titanodon (making him a zombie) then Zombie Frenzy. :)

[iNano78]

Look at what Zombie Frenzy is doing.
Its removing the slow trait.

Fast and slow trait is not removing each other. Instead its cancelling the effect for both so the creature will be normal speed.
It does not matter how many sources that make the creature slow / fast.

So..... the point is to "Raise Again" Titanodon (making him a zombie) then Zombie Frenzy. :)

Haha. If I find my Sacrifical Altar Necromancer is wondering what to do with 10 sbp's, I'll consider it.   :P

There really isn't a need to make Titanodon "Fast" anyway, since he can only Trample once per round. At least, not unless you also make him Elusive (or "cannot be hindered") so he can leave and re-enter a zone before attacking.  And if you really want to have a Fast + Elusive Tampler, it's a lot easier to pull off with the Woolly Rhino.

[Coshade]

It was always my understanding that fast and slow are traits that are either "on" or "off". Getting it turned "on" twice does not double the effect, but just guarantees it's probably staying around. I look forward to see if there is a change to that in the future.

[Kelanen]

It was always my understanding that fast and slow are traits that are either "on" or "off". Getting it turned "on" twice does not double the effect, but just guarantees it's probably staying around. I look forward to see if there is a change to that in the future.

The issue is to do with the meaning of 'Cancel' - is a cancelled trait not present, or supressed, and there are arguments for both sides.

[zot]

is there an update regarding this question?