Eye in the Sky - Forcemaster

[iNano78]

Just wanted to say I agree with almost everything Borg said for his choice of spells (incl Vampiress)... except the contradiction highlighted in red below...

But then, what in place of the Hammer.
I took him out because he's too mana intensive to be put on a Spore. This book generates 14 mana per round ( with two spores out ) and want to be able to Force Pull, use the FM defense if necessary and Fly the Vampiress if necessary, that leaves 11 mana to work with to fuel two spores every round.
Spending 9 mana on a hammer that rolls only 6 dice vs everything that is not a corporeal conjuration is not a big deal.

So I went looking for a cheaper alternative and found it in the Form of a Piercing Thunderstike.
Piercing Thunderstrike is much cheaper at just 6 mana and does a lot of the things that the hammer does, just a little different.
Both are Ethereal, so I've got that covered again.
Hammer rolls 6 dice but Strike rolls 4 + Pierce 2 which comes down to pretty much the same result vs Conjurations who often have 2+ armor.
The difference here is that I get a 7+ Stagger Chance instead of an 8+ Slam chnace and it's Lightning damage, which ups my attack dice vs certain Lightning sensitive folks.

Hammer rolls 8 dice against any conjuration that has 2+ Armor (which would have to be Corporeal, since Incorporeal can't have Armor). So Hammer is always better than Piercing Thunderstrike when the target is a Conjuration (whether Corporeal w/ or w/o Armor, or Incorporeal).

But I understand the desire to save a little mana, esp if you want your Thoughtspores firing on all cylinders every round. Not sure I can justify 4 sbp's for a Piercing Thunderstrike when Force Hammer is in school at 2 sbp, though. I put the Hammer in a lot of non-Mind books and would never consider Piercing Thunderstrike when they cost the same sbp... so it's really hard to turn down the Hammer when it's in school - it's probably the best 2 sbp attack spells, imho (e.g. Hurl Boulder is 4 sbp for the FM, and usually that's the easiest comparison when discussing pros and cons of Force Hammer vs. another attack spell for training where the each cost 4 sbp's).

[Borg]

Just wanted to say I agree with almost everything Borg said for his choice of spells (incl Vampiress)... except the contradiction highlighted in red below...

Oops ... typed that but meant to say something else ... I'll correct the post above.
Was Trying to say that 6 dice or 4 dice + Pierce 2 is more or less the same vs objects with 2+ armor ( unless it's a corporeal conjuration of course )

[Reddicediaries]

I think vs falcons, a good player will tanglevine the vampire and blast the spores.
Also, jet stream wand with hawkeye, akiro, and gale ring. Can wreck spores. Still 5 dice most likely with glancing blow.

[Borg]

I think vs falcons, a good player will tanglevine the vampire and blast the spores.

Falcons may get one-shot by Hurl Rocks before getting close.
Lesser Teleports take care of Tanglevines.

Also, jet stream wand with hawkeye, akiro, and gale ring. Can wreck spores. Still 5 dice most likely with glancing blow.

I see a Wand or some other threatening equipment, Dissolve spore is up.

This book wouldn't be much of a book if it didn't have a counter to those obvious situations.

[drmambo23]

I think vs falcons, a good player will tanglevine the vampire and blast the spores.

Falcons may get one-shot by Hurl Rocks before getting close.
Lesser Teleports take care of Tanglevines.

Also, jet stream wand with hawkeye, akiro, and gale ring. Can wreck spores. Still 5 dice most likely with glancing blow.

I see a Wand or some other threatening equipment, Dissolve spore is up.

This book wouldn't be much of a book if it didn't have a counter to those obvious situations.

You cannot lesser teleport out of tanglevine bc a conjuration is attached to you or the creature. Have to use a regular teleport

[Reddicediaries]

With gauntlets, armor ward, and harshforge, that gets REALLY expensive.

[Borg]

You cannot lesser teleport out of tanglevine bc a conjuration is attached to you or the creature. Have to use a regular teleport

I don't think that's correct, drmambo.
The text may be a bit misleading but is actually saying "Target creature with all cards attached to it, except attached conjurations ( because thse are often the harmful ones ) may be teleported ...
The comma after "creature" makes the difference in meaning.
If there had been no comma, then it would have meant as you described it.

With gauntlets, armor ward, and harshforge, that gets REALLY expensive.

If I spot a Warlord or Paladin across the table I practically already hold my Dissolve Spore ready.
Things will get Dissolved almost at the same speed as they come out or a round later.
It may cost me extra, sure, but going down they will. Just take the least costly path : Ward, Plate, Gauntlets.
This is a situation I've already faced. Paladin ended up pretty naked in the end.

[Halewijn]

Borg. Drmambo is correct. The text says "target creature, without attached conjurations, ..."
You cannot target a creature with tanglevine. I believe there is a tread about this already, so you can look it up.

Edit: I was that paladin and it was one of the only times I lost with that deck. Red, I'm not saying this deck can't be countered, I even had the counters you described, but he had way more actions and channeling so over the long run, I lost the game. The counters you propose aren't easy and very specific. "jet stream wand with hawkeye, akiro, and gale ring" isn't something most mages have.

[Borg]

I put the Hammer in a lot of non-Mind books and would never consider Piercing Thunderstrike when they cost the same sbp... so it's really hard to turn down the Hammer when it's in school

I agree it's an unconventional move but the situations we're talking about here are different imo.

I also use FH frequently in my books but they are meant then as a one-use countermeasure to some situations that arise.
Each copy will be cast just once and then be lost.

In this case however the spell is meant to be stuck on a Spore so it can be cast every round.

I'm sure we agree that 9 mana for 6 dice ( most of the time ) every round doesn't sound very viable.

As an example : consider a ballista as target. 8 life 2 armor
Even with 8 dice the Force Hammer has less than 50% chance of taking it out in 1 shot.
You'll likely need two shots making this a very expensive deal at 18 mana.

Piercing Thunderstrike will do 4 damage on average and so will on average take it out with 12 mana.

So my point here is, Force Hammer would still be the better choice if it can eliminate it's target in 1 round on average , so anything with a combined 8 Life/armor total.

Piercing Strike's main job however is to attack creatures, many of them having 1-2 armor and that's where the damage output is the same, only the Hamer costs 3 mana more.

Against creatures with 3+ armor Force Hammer becomes better again ...

We can't have it all ... choices must be made

[Borg]

Borg. Drmambo is correct. The text says "target creature, without attached conjurations, ..."
You cannot target a creature with tanglevine. I believe there is a tread about this already, so you can look it up.

I just searched and found.
Darn, I could have sworn it was the other way around ... I even recognized the thread, I made the same argument
This makes Lesser Teleport far less interesting.
That red comma should not be there then ... oh well

[Reddicediaries]

So you adapt your standered opening vs war mages or what?
One note: I just saw a really nice warlord that t1 forges and ballista's. How would you deal with that?

[Borg]

So you adapt your standered opening vs war mages or what?
One note: I just saw a really nice warlord that t1 forges and ballista's. How would you deal with that?

I adapt what I put on the Spores.

A Forge R1 means a Dissolve Spore will come out very likely. (R2 or 3)
Ballista can be no further than B2 or A3-zone so can't hit me in my zone C4.
Second Spore ( Flameblast or Piercing Thunderstrike ) can handle the Ballista, maybe in combination with Vampiress.

[Reddicediaries]

So you adapt your standered opening vs war mages or what?
One note: I just saw a really nice warlord that t1 forges and ballista's. How would you deal with that?

I adapt what I put on the Spores. That should not be so hard to understand.

A Forge R1 means a Dissolve Spore will come out very likely. (R2 or 3)
Ballista can be no further than B2 or A3-zone so can't hit me in my zone C4.
Second Spore ( Flameblast or Piercing Thunderstrike ) can handle the Ballista, maybe in combination with Vampiress.

Thanks! Very solid and good book!
The only thing atm I might be worried about if falcons. Tanglevine the vamp and 2-4 falcons with ragan's fury can murder the spores.

[Coshade]

Having played Borg's FM for a weekend (probably about 5 games in total), I can say it's super powerful! I went and changed my old thoughtspore FM to do some neat tactics that Borg had. Major props Borg I always like your write ups!

[Reddicediaries]

So you adapt your standered opening vs war mages or what?
One note: I just saw a really nice warlord that t1 forges and ballista's. How would you deal with that?

I adapt what I put on the Spores. That should not be so hard to understand.

A Forge R1 means a Dissolve Spore will come out very likely. (R2 or 3)
Ballista can be no further than B2 or A3-zone so can't hit me in my zone C4.
Second Spore ( Flameblast or Piercing Thunderstrike ) can handle the Ballista, maybe in combination with Vampiress.

That specific warlord uses lots of jet streams and the like. Jet stream is really good vs spores and mind's eye.