Animal Kinship

[Beldin]

I've tried Kinship Johktari Beastmaster with Lair, but haven't won with it.  It's just too slow. Your first 4 rounds are basically:
1. Lair + FD enchant
2. Kinship + FD enchant
3. (Spawn an Asp) Kinship + FD enchant
4. (Spawn a Fox) Kinship + melee attack (assuming you've caught up to your opponent)
5. ... Realize you've already lost the match.

Actually I think you think you have lost the match because you play it for just it's offensive abilities. The straywood is the better Beastmaster for this kind of book and it should not be played offensively, well not initially. The key to winning is the blunting of your opponents attack and then having a strategy to win. I know control Beastmaster is not the normal paradigm for this mage, however I do believe it to be strong and entirely viable.

[Reddicediaries]

I've tried Kinship Johktari Beastmaster with Lair, but haven't won with it.  It's just too slow. Your first 4 rounds are basically:
1. Lair + FD enchant
2. Kinship + FD enchant
3. (Spawn an Asp) Kinship + FD enchant
4. (Spawn a Fox) Kinship + melee attack (assuming you've caught up to your opponent)
5. ... Realize you've already lost the match.

Actually I think you think you have lost the match because you play it for just it's offensive abilities. The straywood is the better Beastmaster for this kind of book and it should not be played offensively, well not initially. The key to winning is the blunting of your opponents attack and then having a strategy to win. I know control Beastmaster is not the normal paradigm for this mage, however I do believe it to be strong and entirely viable.

What is your kinship opening/plan?

[Beldin]

I havent worked out an exact mana curve but it would be a turtle mage that uses Level 1 Creatures to dial in the subtypes (academy is good for these), animal kinship, Elephant Grass, Guard Dog to protect the Second Kinship. Then flow into Chitin Armor, Elemental Cloak, Raindcloud. Maybe chuck Fellella into the mix for defensive buffs like Fortified Position/Brace Yourself.

Versus swarm Kalathor as he can munch Birds really easily
Versus Big Buddy SteelClaw Grizzly and Eagle Wings
Versus Attack Rush Tangle vine and DOTs. or even Force wall to deny LOS.

You are looking at -8 Flame : -9 Acid : -6 Lightning/Frost : -4 to Other effect dice.

[Reddicediaries]

I havent worked out an exact mana curve but it would be a turtle mage that uses Level 1 Creatures to dial in the subtypes (academy is good for these), animal kinship, Elephant Grass, Guard Dog to protect the Second Kinship. Then flow into Chitin Armor, Elemental Cloak, Raindcloud. Maybe chuck Fellella into the mix for defensive buffs like Fortified Position/Brace Yourself.

Versus swarm Kalathor as he can munch Birds really easily
Versus Big Buddy SteelClaw Grizzly and Eagle Wings
Versus Attack Rush Tangle vine and DOTs. or even Force wall to deny LOS.

You are looking at -8 Flame : -9 Acid : -6 Lightning/Frost : -4 to Other effect dice.

Would you cast lair or what? What are your ideal first 3 rounds?

[Beldin]

No lair. The animals would be hard Cast at Quick cast speed, which is why I choose Straywood and Level 1 creatures. I do not have an ideal first 3 turns yet, I stated this when I said I do not have a mana curve worked out for this. I imagine it would follow my normal template of thought which is 2 turns of early game mana efficiency (Mana Flowers, etc) and laying the foundations of the machine, while reacting to the things my opponent is doing. Once this is up then I would "switch it on" by casting low mana L1 creatures. I haven't pondered on it, but there could even be a turn where QC: Darkfenne Asp (Reptile), FC: Steelclaw Cub (Bear).

[Reddicediaries]

Something like this?
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Kinship![/spellbookname]
[mage]A Beastmaster Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]2 x Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1J02]4 x Animal Kinship[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J13]2 x Mana Flower[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J22]4 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSJ04]1 x Elephant Grass[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1J04]1 x Raincloud[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWA01C17]3 x Steelclaw Cub[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01C04]3 x Darkfenne Asp[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBG1C01]1 x Guard Dog[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C04]3 x Bitterwood Fox[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C34]1 x Steelclaw Grizzly[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC06]1 x Kralathor, The Devourer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1E36]2 x Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E01]2 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E32]2 x Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E05]1 x Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E28]1 x Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E13]1 x Eagle Wings[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1Q07]2 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=LG01Q01]3 x Chitin Armor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q19]1 x Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q08]1 x Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01Q04]1 x Leather Chausses[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ09]1 x Wand of Healing[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ07]2 x Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWAPRI05]1 x Remove Curse[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI13]2 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI02]3 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=PSI01]3 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I28]1 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI12]2 x Minor Heal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I20]1 x Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I23]2 x Rouse the Beast[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

[Beldin]

Yes, something like this.

[drmambo23]

What made you choose the dog over wolves?
And a tegu or raptor would be good to upgrade your reptile after the asps

Also i think you could get away with no bear strength, rhino hide, and possibly mongoose agil. (If you add some cats). That frees up points for a lair and/or more creatures to sustain your buffs.

You could also swap the regrowths to belts and make it harder for them to choose which equipment to get rid of. They only have so many dissolves. If you spread it out between enchants and equipment they can get rid of more buffs.

Also the hunting knife would be pretty awesome in here!

Food for thought

[Reddicediaries]

What made you choose the dog over wolves?
And a tegu or raptor would be good to upgrade your reptile after the asps

Also i think you could get away with no bear strength, rhino hide, and possibly mongoose agil. (If you add some cats). That frees up points for a lair and/or more creatures to sustain your buffs.

You could also swap the regrowths to belts and make it harder for them to choose which equipment to get rid of. They only have so many dissolves. If you spread it out between enchants and equipment they can get rid of more buffs.

Also the hunting knife would be pretty awesome in here!

Food for thought

I kind of built the book in 5 minutes and didn't give it much thought.

[littlenog]

So the real questions is what are you trying to get out of the Animal Kinship.

Melee +1, Armor +1, Tough -2, Elusive, and Climbing.

We can assume Climbing is not of major importance since most walls will have pass through attack.

Elusive I would give high marks and needs only 1 Cat in play an the only way to remove it from you is kill the Cat or one of the Kinship.

Armor +1 is interesting because of how it has to be removed no dissolves or disenchants.
Corrode or Kill one of the two sources.

Melee +1
If this is your thing here is where I think you can make pay dirt.
Straywood already swings for 4 dices, 5 with his staff, 6 with staff + kinship, 8 with bear strength. (See where this is going)  Now that critical strike is a thing you can have pierce +3 for 2 spb.
Put that with a Pet Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf and there is a pain train coming.

For the cost Timber Wolves are just solid creatures.  Pet them for some extra HP and 2 more dice when with you.

The way I see it working out is saving mana every odd round by enchanting and a melee attack.
Then on even rounds summon a worth while creature Or drop a kinship.

I would also try to be disruptive with the Kinships put them in your opponents area and block their zones up with your zone exclusives.

Lets get away from the variety of spells and just see what we can do with your core stuff.  What if you wanted 6 Bear Strengths and 4 Rhino Hides.  For your in between Mana conservation rounds.  An remember you might just run your opponent out of dispels.  I might even pack a corrosive orchid or two just to remove the dispel wands that might hide behind a nullify.

I'll work on a book later to give you an idea of what I picture this as.

[iNano78]

So the real questions is what are you trying to get out of the Animal Kinship.

Melee +1, Armor +1, Tough -2, Elusive, and Climbing.

We can assume Climbing is not of major importance since most walls will have pass through attack.

Elusive I would give high marks and needs only 1 Cat in play an the only way to remove it from you is kill the Cat or one of the Kinship.

Armor +1 is interesting because of how it has to be removed no dissolves or disenchants.
Corrode or Kill one of the two sources.

Melee +1
If this is your thing here is where I think you can make pay dirt.
Straywood already swings for 4 dices, 5 with his staff, 6 with staff + kinship, 8 with bear strength. (See where this is going)  Now that critical strike is a thing you can have pierce +3 for 2 spb.
Put that with a Pet Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf and there is a pain train coming.

For the cost Timber Wolves are just solid creatures.  Pet them for some extra HP and 2 more dice when with you.

The way I see it working out is saving mana every odd round by enchanting and a melee attack.
Then on even rounds summon a worth while creature Or drop a kinship.

I would also try to be disruptive with the Kinships put them in your opponents area and block their zones up with your zone exclusives.

Lets get away from the variety of spells and just see what we can do with your core stuff.  What if you wanted 6 Bear Strengths and 4 Rhino Hides.  For your in between Mana conservation rounds.  An remember you might just run your opponent out of dispels.  I might even pack a corrosive orchid or two just to remove the dispel wands that might hide behind a nullify.

I'll work on a book later to give you an idea of what I picture this as.

From your post, I get the impression there might be some misunderstanding regarding how Kinship works.

If you have 1x Kinship and 4x Canines, you get Melee +1, not Melee +4.

If you have 4x Kinship and 1x Canine, you get Melee +4, Melee +1.

This means you never "need" more than 1 of each type of animal in play to get full benefits out of all your Kinships.

[littlenog]

So the real questions is what are you trying to get out of the Animal Kinship.

Melee +1, Armor +1, Tough -2, Elusive, and Climbing.

We can assume Climbing is not of major importance since most walls will have pass through attack.

Elusive I would give high marks and needs only 1 Cat in play an the only way to remove it from you is kill the Cat or one of the Kinship.

Armor +1 is interesting because of how it has to be removed no dissolves or disenchants.
Corrode or Kill one of the two sources.

Melee +1
If this is your thing here is where I think you can make pay dirt.
Straywood already swings for 4 dices, 5 with his staff, 6 with staff + kinship, 8 with bear strength. (See where this is going)  Now that critical strike is a thing you can have pierce +3 for 2 spb.
Put that with a Pet Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf and there is a pain train coming.

For the cost Timber Wolves are just solid creatures.  Pet them for some extra HP and 2 more dice when with you.

The way I see it working out is saving mana every odd round by enchanting and a melee attack.
Then on even rounds summon a worth while creature Or drop a kinship.

I would also try to be disruptive with the Kinships put them in your opponents area and block their zones up with your zone exclusives.

Lets get away from the variety of spells and just see what we can do with your core stuff.  What if you wanted 6 Bear Strengths and 4 Rhino Hides.  For your in between Mana conservation rounds.  An remember you might just run your opponent out of dispels.  I might even pack a corrosive orchid or two just to remove the dispel wands that might hide behind a nullify.

I'll work on a book later to give you an idea of what I picture this as.

From your post, I get the impression there might be some misunderstanding regarding how Kinship works.

If you have 1x Kinship and 4x Canines, you get Melee +1, not Melee +4.

If you have 4x Kinship and 1x Canine, you get Melee +4, Melee +1.

This means you never "need" more than 1 of each type of animal in play to get full benefits out of all your Kinships.

I would also try to be disruptive with the Kinships (Plural) put them in your opponents area and block their zones up with your zone exclusives.

The way I see it working out is saving mana every odd round by enchanting and a melee attack.  Then on even rounds summon a worth while creature Or drop a kinship.

Animals I would use
Cat = Cervere
- Not small, Expensive at 15 mana, Takes focus to kill.
- She makes you elusive

Cat = Bobcat
- Cheap and a quick cast for SBM.
- Early Turn Bobcat that hides just so you have Elusive
- I would rather get the Elusive later after I've stacked up a bit which is why I like Cervere.

Canine = Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf
- Timber wolf are an easy case every round if you want or ever other if you alternate.
- Dire wolves and Red Claw a good here too.

Bear = Good ole Grizzly
- Not much to say here

The issue with Kinship is zone exclusive cause I would like to have at least 2 mana flowers maybe 3 if no lair.
You want to keep your mana pool high so you can drop Cervere or a Bear when your ready.

I understand how Kinship works.

[Gogolski]

Goblin builder.

He needs a full action to cast a corporeal conjuration, his next action is a move action to position him for the next conjuration, while you are saving the mana for that conjuration (or for putting a bigger creature out).

He can take care of the actions needed to get the kinships in place while your straywood does other things.

Preferably non-mana-intensive things.

Go forward early so your builder can stay at the back and plant Mana Flowers, Kinships, an Enchanter's Wardstone, Meridia's Blessing while your Straywood hits stuff, enchants or heals now and then, quickcasts Lv1 animals and Fullcasts a bigger threat (which has enough life to guard) now and then. Put three Ring of Beasts in your book to bait dissolves/crumbles, they are so cheap you'll get your mana out of it.

The Goblin Builder is great and does not get enough love in my opinion. (He's good with a siren too => Shallow seas, coral walls, bed of urchins, mana flowers, the wreck,...)

[Beldin]

Can we ban red text on the forums lol. It nearly gave me a headache lol