Siren Still Hasn't Beaten Paladin

[Super Sorcerer]

ב"ה

Is there any point to having Rust as Siren when you have Acid Ball? I know Rust is cheaper but it can just be dispelled

The main thing is that there are effects that remove conditions, just as there are effects that dispel enchantments. Against a priestess, corrodes are almost always only temporary, and many other mages use wand of healing and cure.
A secondary issue is that while acid resistance curently exist only in promos, generally an acid ball have a chance of reducing armor by only one, and tough -2 that anvil thrones got (and paladins could get through aura) that could combine with the belt that gives though -2 might also reduce the effect of an acid ball.

[Halewijn]

Thanks for clearing that up. I will definitely be using Ring of Tides now since it works with the trident. Now what about equipment? If it doesn't say Hydro but has the water symbol does her Ring of the Oceans Depths let you pay less mana?

Is there any point to having Rust as Siren when you have Acid Ball? I know Rust is cheaper but it can just be dispelled

I don't see how the choice acid ball/rust is any different for the siren as for any other mage. Neither of her rings give any (dis)advantage on either card. (Although it is a curse and therefore a better option for warlocks.)

The ring only gives a discount if the spell has the hydro subtype. This is unrelated to the attack bar. So no, it would not give you a discount. Just to note, the ring of tides only gives the bonus to her ranged attack and not her melee attack. You see?

[Laddinfance]

Thanks for clearing that up. I will definitely be using Ring of Tides now since it works with the trident. Now what about equipment? If it doesn't say Hydro but has the water symbol does her Ring of the Oceans Depths let you pay less mana?

Is there any point to having Rust as Siren when you have Acid Ball? I know Rust is cheaper but it can just be dispelled

The Trident has a hydro attack, but it is not a hydro spell. That is what the subtype would mean.

[MrSaucy]

ב"ה

Is there any point to having Rust as Siren when you have Acid Ball? I know Rust is cheaper but it can just be dispelled

The main thing is that there are effects that remove conditions, just as there are effects that dispel enchantments. Against a priestess, corrodes are almost always only temporary, and many other mages use wand of healing and cure.
A secondary issue is that while acid resistance curently exist only in promos, generally an acid ball have a chance of reducing armor by only one, and tough -2 that anvil thrones got (and paladins could get through aura) that could combine with the belt that gives though -2 might also reduce the effect of an acid ball.

Those are some good points. It makes sense to have both Rust and Acid Ball. I think 4 Acid Ball might be overkill and I'll go 2 Rust and 2 Acid Ball.

[Biblofilter]

Can´t see any reason why you should auto-loose with this book.

I would include 1+ Coral Reef, Swell and Tsunami.

Push and Pull just seems like it should be able to do some damage.

I think you are overdoing Drown? As i understand it the Suffocate markers goes away when people dispel it. So that would require a lot of mana for most of the time not much. One late game might be fine - maybe combo with Enchantment Trf and Arcane Ward?

Harmonize? On Echo of the Depths? Id worry about that getting dissolved. Meditation Amulet might get mana and creatures going, but you wont be able to do that much with Trident and Songs then.

Seems slow overall. (nothing that i have solved, and making them come to you should be fine)

[MrSaucy]

I'm starting to win with Siren. The Spellbook wasn't the problem. She really is just hard to play. It sounds like common sense but you really need to control the center and use her built in abilities and equipment as much as possible. Her Trident, tidecallers, harpooners, and Siren Call can be combined to push enemies from trap to trap amazingly well. Coral Barrier is good for forcing the opponent through choke points.

[MrSaucy]

I think you are overdoing Drown? As i understand it the Suffocate markers goes away when people dispel it. So that would require a lot of mana for most of the time not much.

I thought Suffocate was a condition marker. The spell and codex say nothing about removing them when they are dispelled (in which case I feel like the spell would be nearly useless.)

[MrSaucy]

Okay correction: it says Drown gets a suffocation marker. That definitely makes it not as good. Still great for enemies with 8 or less health since you are taking away at least 25% of their health. But I'm not putting in 4 anymore.

[MrSaucy]

Sooo just won another game. Did 20 damage in one round. Siren has some ridiculous combos.

[Phillus]

The opposite happened to me.
Me and my friend played with the Starter Spellbooks.
2 games as Siren then Swap books, two games as Paladin.
4 out of the 4 games Siren won.

[Puddnhead]

I believe that the starter books are imbalanced.  The Paladin needs a few more tricks from the core set and the Siren could benefit greatly from Rust and Acid Ball.

[Super Sorcerer]

ב"ה
The Paladin's starting book got loads of creatures, and a spawnpoint that can spawn only 2. It is also a melee book that need the full actions to make melee attacks (or activating auras). That means a large portion of the book is just wasted.
To test the Paladin I dropped some things that came in several copies, and put in a temple of asyra, a dawnbreaker's ring, a bear's strength and some other minor things. it is still a testing book and not really competitive, but it is just easier to test all these new things when I could actually use them, instead of just having them in my book without any chance to see the board.

[ClockWork]

Siren is less straight forward then a Paladin and therefore "harder" to play. Also matches with base books don't really count

[Sailor Vulcan]

The preconstructed books are meant to be flexible and let you choose different strategies. That means there are less spell points devoted to each strategy although there should still be overlap. No, they're not as good as a competitive book, but that does not mean that they are imbalanced for preconstructed play. To be honest I'm not sure whether the preconstructed books are imbalanced with each other or not. It's not like they've been tested that much. Nobody plays preconstructed games very often, it doesn't have a meta-game.


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[Beldin]

The preconstructed books are meant to be flexible and let you choose different strategies. That means there are less spell points devoted to each strategy although there should still be overlap. No, they're not as good as a competitive book, but that does not mean that they are imbalanced for preconstructed play. To be honest I'm not sure whether the preconstructed books are imbalanced with each other or not. It's not like they've been tested that much. Nobody plays preconstructed games very often, it doesn't have a meta game.

Thus is an interesting thought. I have always seen them as a taster book to see how it plays and how you can do it better. None of them are balanced against each other as they all lack removal, apart from splashes in certain books and maybe more in later books. Also balancing every new starter book against every previous starter book would detract from time spent on design and play testing. Also would require a rebalancing of the previous books before this point.