Reach on flying

[exid]

Normally Reach has no effect on flying.
But when the attack has the reach trait too, it allows the flying creature to target a creature on the ground and a flying one.

How I see it, the flying creature touches the non-flying one without landing.
Logically the flying creature could also target a a non-flying creature without landing with an only reach attack (no sweeping).

Is it possible?

[bigfatchef]

That would only effect a creature with reach trait that got eagle wings (until there is another way to get flying trait).
I see the arene vertically devided into 2 floors where the top floor is much higher than the lower floor ( los over wall 4 zones to the side and only one zone up is possible so the center of the higher zone has to be pretty high).
A reach attack is an attack that where the attacker touches the opponent in the higher zone without moving.

Logically the reach attack should also work from the sky back to earth without moving. But also logically reach could work to adjacent zones, but doesn't.

Besides all logical feeling the codex says:
“Reach:
This melee attack can target and attack creatures in the same zone.“
There is nothing mentioned why it should work the other way around. So it doesn't. A flying creature making a reach attack would land and normal melee attack.

[exid]

but reach allows to attack from the sky when sweeping!!!

that was an old Zuberi's question that were never answered... but I agree the rules are clear on this point.

[bigfatchef]

But isn't it the same even without reach? A flyer with sweeping attack can attack a flyer and a non-flyer as far as I know.

[Kelanen]

But isn't it the same even without reach? A flyer with sweeping attack can attack a flyer and a non-flyer as far as I know.

No, it can't. Once it hits the first target it's either in the air or on the ground until the attack sequence completes.

[Zuberi]

This question actually was answered, Exid. Supplement pg 23 under sweeping. When a flyer makes a sweeping melee attack, the first target will determine whether the attacker loses or retains the flying trait. A nonflying attacker with reach can do a sweeping attack against both flyers and nonflyers. A flying attacker can not. Reach only allows nonflyers to attack flyers, not the other way around.

Thus, if you make a sweeping melee attack with a flying creature who has the reach trait, and your first target is a nonflyer, then you'll lose the flying trait and your second target can be either a flyer or a nonflyer. If your first target is a flyer though, then your second target must also be a flyer because the attacker is still flying.

[bigfatchef]

Wow. That is an interesting part of sweeping that I totally missed.

[exid]

This question actually was answered, Exid. Supplement pg 23 under sweeping. When a flyer makes a sweeping melee attack, the first target will determine whether the attacker loses or retains the flying trait. A nonflying attacker with reach can do a sweeping attack against both flyers and nonflyers. A flying attacker can not. Reach only allows nonflyers to attack flyers, not the other way around.

Thus, if you make a sweeping melee attack with a flying creature who has the reach trait, and your first target is a nonflyer, then you'll lose the flying trait and your second target can be either a flyer or a nonflyer. If your first target is a flyer though, then your second target must also be a flyer because the attacker is still flying.

But the codex 3.1 (the latest official document) says:
When a Flying creature uses a Sweeping attack, if the first target has Flying, the second target must also have Flying. Similarly, if the first target does not have Flying, the second target mus also not have Flying.
If a creature uses a Sweeping attack that also has Reach or a Sweeping ranged attack then the above restriction does not apply;
the second target can be Flying or non-Flying, independent of the first target.

[Zuberi]

My apologies. I did not realize this had gotten an update in the newest codex release. You are correct. This means that a flying creature can attack a nonflyer by using reach, but ONLY if the nonflyer is the second target of a sweeping attack, following an initial flying target. And such would only work for sweeping attacks currently. Not battle fury or similar. They still have to land to attack nonflyers in every other situation, regardless of reach. I wonder if this was actually intended or if they were just trying to condense information for the codex.

[exid]

I totaly agree that by the rulles, for flying creatures, reach interacts only with sweeping attacks.
As you say, I just wanted to know if it was intended.

[Laddinfance]

Yes, that is intended. We do not want flying creatures using reach under normal circumstances.

[Halewijn]

So a flying sweeper can attack a guard without receiving a counter strike only if it attacked another flyer first, but he cannot do so without attacking another flyer first?

[Zuberi]

So a flying sweeper can attack a guard without receiving a counter strike only if it attacked another flyer first, but he cannot do so without attacking another flyer first?

Correct.

[Moonglow]

Yes, that is intended. We do not want flying creatures using reach under normal circumstances.

Why's that?  Surely a long pointy stick is a long pointy stick, regardless of whether its pointing up or down?  This seems to be contributing to the complexity that is making mage wars more and more esoteric versus the rules as seem to make sense.

[exid]

sometimes it's difficult to make the world and the game work together.
it seems logical to let the priority on the game.