Seeking Dispel vs Arcane Ward

[Borg]

I think it goes like this but I'd like confirmation.

Example :
I have a FD Bear Strength with a FD Arcane Ward on it.
The opponent casts Seeking Dispel targeting the FD Bear Strength.

Q1
The Arcane Ward counters, "cancels the effects" and refunds the Seeking Dispel
and I can still reveal the Bear Strength ( should I choose to ) after the Ward resolved ?

Q2
Does the Arcane Ward trigger during the "Cast Spell" step ( step 1 of spellcasting ) or during the "counter spell" ( step 2 of spellcasting ).
Looking at the wording, AW triggers AND resolves during step 1 of the Seeking Dispel's casting.

[exid]

1) The BS is targeted by the seeking dispel, you can't reveal it.
But, revealing the ward you counter the seeking dispel, when it's done you can reveal the BS.


2) Normally it is a counter effect, it should trigger during the counter spell step.
The wording sais " when the spell is the target", I think it is no matter of timing but a condition. And it also sais "refund the mana", what would have no sense before the step 2 (pay cost).

[Zuberi]

The tricky thing here is that arcane ward is an academy card, and academy is not the same game as arena. Things work differently in academy, including how you cast spells, and this card was designed to function in that environment. In academy there isn't a pay costs step or a counter spell step. Casting spells consist of only two steps, declare and resolve. Under that framework, arcane ward was designed to trigger during the declare step, and without any official statement to the contrary, that's also when it will trigger in arena with how it's currently written.

Thus, arcane ward triggers during the declare spell step. The seeking dispel is discarded. You never spend any mana. And afterwards you may reveal bear strength whenever you'd like.

[exid]

I see your point of view... Academy cards should be arena compatible though...

I think we need an official rulling here.

[Zuberi]

How is it not compatible?

[exid]

It's not... the wording with "when the spell is targeted" and "refund the mana" is just not verry clear in an arena game.

[Zuberi]

That seems perfectly clear. When the spell is targeted is the Declare Spell step. Refund any mana spent is also clear, since at this point you haven't spent any. So, you get a refund of 0. What's not covered?

[Kelanen]

I have to say, I don't see the issue on this one...

[RomeoXero]

This is one of those cases where the card text trumps the game rules. It's perfectly compatible and worded very clearly. Just because it doesn't follow the standard arena format doesn't mean uts incompatible because the card concisely indicates exactly when it takes effect. And that's the waaayyyyyyy the news goes!

[exid]

It's not... the wording with "when the spell is targeted" and "refund the mana" is just not verry clear in an arena game.

by "it's not" I meant "It's not not compatible" 
so yes it's playable, but I find it really unnatural in the Arena (more than having a regeneration that hasn't the name regeneration on it!).

[Kelanen]

It's not... the wording with "when the spell is targeted" and "refund the mana" is just not verry clear in an arena game.

by "it's not" I meant "It's not not compatible" 
so yes it's playable, but I find it really unnatural in the Arena (more than having a regeneration that hasn't the name regeneration on it!).

I think you are going to need to just get used ot that as a natural artefact of Academy cards in Arena. I don't think it's an issue.

[Beldin]

Where I do have an issue is proving which enchantment is protected by arcane in a stack of face down (FD) enchantments, without showing you placing arcane ward on a specific enchantment.

By the rule you can never mix up the order that a stack is in and each enchantment played is placed at the end or top of the stack. To allow stack manipulation gives the opponent hidden knowledge and thus moots the point of the hidden protection of Arcane Ward.

EG

3) Force Orb (FD)
2) BS (FD)
1) Brace (FD)
MAGE

I wish to enchant BS with Arcane Ward, however by the rule it must be time-stamped in spot 4. There is nothing stopping me from later claiming I have Arcane warded the force orb or brace if it is targeted by Seeking Dispel. I am not a cheater myself, however there is room for it here.

[Beldin]

Sorry for double posting, however this is a separate question.

What happens to a FD Jinx on my mage, which has been arcane warded. I cast seeking dispel on the jinx, by luck, what happens?

[Puddnhead]

This is what I would recommend, Beldin,

1) To play the Arcane Ward on another face down enchantment, turn the Arcane Ward sideways and slide it under the enchantment you wish to protect.  This way it is clear which enchantment is attached to another enchantment and which enchantment it is attached to as well as which enchantments are only attached to your mage.

2) The Jinx would trigger if you are targeting Arcane Ward and the Arcane Ward would trigger if you are targeting Jinx.

[Kelanen]

Where I do have an issue is proving which enchantment is protected by arcane in a stack of face down (FD) enchantments, without showing you placing arcane ward on a specific enchantment.

No this is wrong AW would never be in the general stack, because that is a stack on one object. AW is on a separate object, hence the 90 degree placement convention to keep this clear. It can never be mixed up with others because of time stamp...

Sorry for double posting, however this is a separate question.

What happens to a FD Jinx on my mage, which has been arcane warded. I cast seeking dispel on the jinx, by luck, what happens?

If you have been Arcane Warded, then no-one can sucessfully put a Jinx on you...