Crocodile vs Crab

[Halewijn]

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

[SharkBait]

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

[Mystery]

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

A pet crocodile? just take a pet grizzly and be done with it. The crocodile does of course reduce 2 dice of the grappled creature but first loses 1 die and pierce for the initial move in and later 5 dice vs 7 dice pierce 1 or if the grizzly is your vicitm 5 dice pierce 1 vs 5 dice bleed, the bleeds will stack after some time but initially (until they die and no healing the piercing will give you the same) On top it wastes two of your precious spellbook points.

I am still of same opionion as in playtesting to weak initial dice or at least it should be a 4 spellbooks point creature for either not 6. But the croc has some interaction with the sirene and the deptones, but that takes long set up and the sirene is rather squishy for it. Just the 6 spellbooks points will mean you hardly can afford a back up. It as not a down the road creature but small buffs could have made it a good creature

To the comparison both have the benefits, but for the mana cost you get just better stuff with the crocodile in my pov.

[SharkBait]

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

A pet crocodile? just take a pet grizzly and be done with it. The crocodile does of course reduce 2 dice of the grappled creature but first loses 1 die and pierce for the initial move in and later 5 dice vs 7 dice pierce 1 or if the grizzly is your vicitm 5 dice pierce 1 vs 5 dice bleed, the bleeds will stack after some time but initially (until they die and no healing the piercing will give you the same) On top it wastes two of your precious spellbook points.

I am still of same opionion as in playtesting to weak initial dice or at least it should be a 4 spellbooks point creature for either not 6. But the croc has some interaction with the sirene and the deptones, but that takes long set up and the sirene is rather squishy for it. Just the 6 spellbooks points will mean you hardly can afford a back up. It as not a down the road creature but small buffs could have made it a good creature

To the comparison both have the benefits, but for the mana cost you get just better stuff with the crocodile in my pov.

But the bear doesn't do the same job as the croc. The bear's not a reptile, so no armor gain from kinships. The bear can't grapple, so it can't hold a target in place. The bear doesn't cause bleed, which will also add up as you point out. The bear also costs more extra mana (though the difference is minor.) If the pet I wanted was there strictly for damage potential, the bear would be the better choice. Seeing as a pet croc still rolls upwards of 6-7 dice in the same zone as the BM, it's still going to put the hurt out.

Not saying the bear's a bad choice, but it has a different tactical job.

[Mystery]

I really don't know the cards, but I'm interested. If the Crocodile and the Crab would be applying for a job in your deck, who would you pick and why? 

Depends on the deck, what it's doing, and possibly the training of your mage.

That being said, I love using the croc in beastmaster books. He's a phenomenal pet for straywoods that can also be a sturdy reptile if you run kinships. I also run him in a JBM that I call the bleedmaster too due to grapple being all around awesome and the deathroll having a 5+ bleed chance.

The Crab (multiple, actually) shows up in my siren book as anti-zombie tech. Zombies are notoriously hard to kill due to resilient, so the 2 damage in the upkeep to whatever the crabs have grappled is very effective. The 5 armor of the crab also lets it shrug off otherwise high damage hits from the zombies themselves. Akiro's favor and Iguana regrowth are fantastic accompanying spells for the Crabs too.

At some point, I'm going to try a pet crab out as well. I'm a HUGE fan of both of these creatures because they have the potential to be big, hard to kill threats that can also hold enemy creatures in place for you.

A pet crocodile? just take a pet grizzly and be done with it. The crocodile does of course reduce 2 dice of the grappled creature but first loses 1 die and pierce for the initial move in and later 5 dice vs 7 dice pierce 1 or if the grizzly is your vicitm 5 dice pierce 1 vs 5 dice bleed, the bleeds will stack after some time but initially (until they die and no healing the piercing will give you the same) On top it wastes two of your precious spellbook points.

I am still of same opionion as in playtesting to weak initial dice or at least it should be a 4 spellbooks point creature for either not 6. But the croc has some interaction with the sirene and the deptones, but that takes long set up and the sirene is rather squishy for it. Just the 6 spellbooks points will mean you hardly can afford a back up. It as not a down the road creature but small buffs could have made it a good creature

To the comparison both have the benefits, but for the mana cost you get just better stuff with the crocodile in my pov.

But the bear doesn't do the same job as the croc. The bear's not a reptile, so no armor gain from kinships. The bear can't grapple, so it can't hold a target in place. The bear doesn't cause bleed, which will also add up as you point out. The bear also costs more extra mana (though the difference is minor.) If the pet I wanted was there strictly for damage potential, the bear would be the better choice. Seeing as a pet croc still rolls upwards of 6-7 dice in the same zone as the BM, it's still going to put the hurt out.

Not saying the bear's a bad choice, but it has a different tactical job.

have you ever seen a competetive high level kinship book? Your bear is probably more the problem then your reptile. The in place yes, but it takes first a weak attack to grapple it then it will cause bleed two out of three rounds. It is totally usless against regenerating creatures where it is really just 1extra dmg. In place is nice for stuff you want to keep in place, but with your pet you want to be in that zone so you don't want to be away to shoot and keep it in place. You can also keep it in place with a tanglevine, the problem a single teleport (now even minor teleport) can remove your grapple and then the croc has just been a 4 dice creature (or 5/6 with pet) for 2-3 rounds (depending on effect die and move) for far too long. As said its not a bad creature but small adjustments could have made it a good one. All mixed level creatures have been just hard to include anyway.

[Kelanen]

I'm not sold on either as a pet, although I may revise that opinion.

My early feeling is that Crocodile is going to suffer the same as Bridge Troll - a great card that becomes overcosted SBPwise because of his schools. I feel multischool cards (at least without an intended mage with all required schools) need to be undercosted in mana to make up for the fact they will overcost in SBP. Croc is a L4 creature that I would probably use if I could have him for 4SBP (certainly as a control card in Nature books, I'm less convinced in Siren), but I don't think I want at 6SBP...

Crab has the same problem, although a little less severe (at least for Siren). I also feel he needs an extra dice on his base attack, and/or maybe +2 Life...

Of the two, I favour Crab more. As a control player at heart, I'm very interested to play with both, although I fear them both being more Giant Wolf Spiders - great ideas, but overcosted. Unfortunately things like Grizzly are so cost effective, that the best control method is often kill it quickly with a super-efficient creature!

[Biblofilter]

Druid + Crocodille and Swamp kill zone.

Keechjen build it, but i havnt tried it.

Still dreaming about having a flying Crocodille grappling something over a  solid wall. (WoT?) Then loose flying and land for some nice trap like Hydro Vent

[Kelanen]

Still dreaming about having a flying Crocodille grappling something over a  solid wall. (WoT?) Then loose flying and land for some nice trap like Hydro Vent

It's not a ranged Grapple like Kraken?

[Biblofilter]

Yes its ranged.

Walls could be used to separate target from friendly forces.

Wall of Thorns seems good with Druid or Beastmasters.

But could even work vs enemy blocking walls.

[Kelanen]

Yes its ranged.

I don't have physical cards in front of me, but it's not ranged on the physical cards that DiceTower reviewed...

[Mystery]

its just melee grapple. no snatch that would only work with kraken.

The thematic i like all this, they are just not strong enough with all interactions yet. Killing something with for example your grizzly is just the better way to go on a competetive level.

[Kelanen]

its just melee grapple. no snatch that would only work with kraken.

The thematic i like all this, they are just not strong enough with all interactions yet. Killing something with for example your grizzly is just the better way to go on a competetive level.

Agreed.

[Halewijn]

I think Ill add one in my nature mages books. The aquatic subtype is great against sirens.

[Mystery]

I think Ill add one in my nature mages books. The aquatic subtype is great against sirens.

think about it Yes of course nice against sirene, but how long can it truly survive? The Sirenes creatures still roll the extra die in shallow sea, and the sirene player probably knows that he has to get rid of that croc. So you invest 6 sbp in a very situational card, aren't you better of with 3 of dispel/crumble/dissolve/purify/disperse/removecurse...

[Halewijn]

Maybe so, but you forget the epicness of your pet-croc being buffed in the opponents sea! 

Never forget awesomeness in your calculations.