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Author Topic: Curses & Fire - Adramelech Warlock  (Read 7991 times)

Borg

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Curses & Fire - Adramelech Warlock
« on: September 28, 2016, 07:55:30 AM »
Major rework of my Adramelech book.
Any suggestions or remarks are welcome.

UPDATE 22/10/16

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Curses & Fire[/spellbookname]
[mage]Adramelech Warlock[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1a06]6 x  Flameblast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a04]4 x  Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a12]1 x  Ring of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j12]1 x  Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]2 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1C16]1 x  Flaming Hellion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c03]1 x  Dark Pact Slayer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q08]2 x  Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]2 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ01]2 x  Cloak of Shadows[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q10]2 x  Fireshaper Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLQ03]1 x  Demonhide Mask[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e14]2 x  Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]2 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]2 x  Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e31]2 x  Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE01]1 x  Adramelech's Touch[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]2 x  Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e24]2 x  Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLE01]1 x  Curse Item[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E09]1 x  Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01E02]2 x  Arcane Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]1 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e21]1 x  Hawkeye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e32]2 x  Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]1 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E36]1 x  Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]1 x  Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]1 x  Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i06]3 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01I02]1 x  Disperse[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]3 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01I01]1 x  Crumble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]1 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i20]1 x  Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAPRI05]1 x  Remove Curse[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]


OLDER VERSION

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Fireslinger[/spellbookname]
[mage]Adramelech Warlock[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1a06]4 x  Flameblast[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a04]4 x  Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]3 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLA01]2 x  Firestream[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a12]1 x  Ring of Fire[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]1 x  Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q10]2 x  Fireshaper Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q08]3 x  Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]3 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ01]2 x  Cloak of Shadows[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWAWLQ03]1 x  Demonhide Mask[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q23]2 x  Regrowth Belt[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j04]2 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]1 x  Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]2 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c16]1 x  Flaming Hellion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c03]1 x  Dark Pact Slayer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e21]2 x  Hawkeye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]2 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]3 x  Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e14]2 x  Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]2 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E31]2 x  Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE01]1 x  Adramelech's Touch[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01E02]2 x  Arcane Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]1 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E10]1 x  Decoy[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]1 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i06]3 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]3 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWA01I01]1 x  Crumble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI03]2 x  Disarm[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFI05]1 x  Ignite[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]1 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 07:34:04 AM by Borg »
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Coshade

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 08:43:52 AM »
This looks pretty aggressive! Don't have much time, here's some thoughts

Have you thought about firestream? You have a lot of attack spells and 3 elemental wands and 1 mana crystal the extra mana you save vs Flame Blast could be worth it.

If your Battle Forge gets destroyed round 2 would that cripple you? In a book like this I sometimes take 2 BF.

In my experience your creatures is just at the right point. Sometimes I prefer 2, sometimes 3. I have had a lot of hard times with Flaming Hellion surviving though and replaced with Zombie Brute and Skeletal Knight. It always pains me though because of that curse boost they get to damage.

Any thoughts on Demonic Link?

Also
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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 11:24:26 AM »
ב"ה
Why do you need 3 seeking dispels?
Even if your opponent use arcane ward on all of his enchantments, 2 seeking dispels and 1 decoy are enough to allow you to use all 3 dispels.
Usually 2 are enough.

But then again, it seems like an excellent rush book, so I don't have a good answer for what would bw a better option. Perhaps a a mage bane and a firestream (which could perhaps be usefull when you are exactly 1 mana short of a flameblast), or another adramelech's touch.

SharkBait

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 11:34:18 AM »
More to come later since I'm at work, but one quick suggestion is to trade force hammer for a lightning bolt. Bolt takes down those dumb rain clouds while fireball does the job of the hammer just as well in 95% of scenarios
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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 12:31:57 PM »
Dude Shark thats a really interesting point.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 12:44:05 PM by Coshade »
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Borg

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 02:00:43 PM »
Have you thought about firestream? You have a lot of attack spells and 3 elemental wands and 1 mana crystal the extra mana you save vs Flame Blast could be worth it.

That's a good suggestion, Coshade.
What makes Flameblast special is the Unavoidable trait of course but not every creature has a Defense so I guess I can safely swap 1 or 2 copies for Firestream. That 1 mana does matter indeed.

If your Battle Forge gets destroyed round 2 would that cripple you? In a book like this I sometimes take 2 BF.

I'd like to say no but it's probably a yes.
If a second BF is added, I'd probably remove 1 Hellion.

I'd also like to elaborate somewhat on the "job description" of the BF in this book :

Sometimes BF's are just used to speed up the early game and become somewhat useless by the mid game.

In Tank builds, BF's are used like "Assembly Lines" and continue to be used through the mid and into the endgame on multiple single copy equipment spells.

This BF operates differently in the sense that even though there are 13 equipment spells, there are only 6 different Equipment cards. This BF's extra job is to "Reforge" what's broken.

This book actually wants to lure the opponent into spending actions and mana on destroying some equipment which will be instantly "Reforged" the following round with a "free" action from the Forge giving me an action advantage.

So, it may happen that the BF remains inactive for one or more rounds and accumulates mana in the meantime
just to trigger back into action after the destruction of an equipment piece. ( except for the mask )

So, is the loss of the BF "crippling" ?
I'd say maybe but not necessarily. Gameplay will be necessary to make that final call.

Any thoughts on Demonic Link?

- This card has only 2 targets to be played on in this book. If those cards don't enter play, DL is a dead card.
- It requires your demon to attack a living enemy creature. Another restriction. Potential dead card.
- Healing 1 Damage per attack and +1 melee seems like a "minor" effect
- It adds to the cost of the Demon it is played on making the potential loss bigger.
- Most of the time, I think something more urgently or more importantly will need to be played instead.
- If I'm missing something valuable, ... I'm always willing to listen and learn :)

Why do you need 3 seeking dispels?
Even if your opponent use arcane ward on all of his enchantments, 2 seeking dispels and 1 decoy are enough to allow you to use all 3 dispels.
Usually 2 are enough.

They are not there just to take on Arcane Wards.

There are also cards like Forcefield, Enchantment Transfusion, even Brace Yourself or now Second Chance which are spells you want to be able to counter.
I think we've entered the stage in MW where 2 seeking dispels may no longer be "enough".

... but one quick suggestion is to trade force hammer for a lightning bolt. Bolt takes down those dumb rain clouds while fireball does the job of the hammer just as well in 95% of scenarios

I like that suggestion but not for the example you mention ;)
The high Stun chances, coupled with Akiro's Favor has potential, especially against Lightning +2 targets.

Force Hammer does roll one more die vs the Rain Cloud than Lightning Bolt, yes ? And both are Ethereal.

Looking forward to your comment/suggestions SharkBait.


Spellbook updated using excellent suggestions.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 02:29:59 PM by Borg »
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SharkBait

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2016, 10:55:46 AM »
... but one quick suggestion is to trade force hammer for a lightning bolt. Bolt takes down those dumb rain clouds while fireball does the job of the hammer just as well in 95% of scenarios

I like that suggestion but not for the example you mention ;)
The high Stun chances, coupled with Akiro's Favor has potential, especially against Lightning +2 targets.

Force Hammer does roll one more die vs the Rain Cloud than Lightning Bolt, yes ? And both are Ethereal.

Looking forward to your comment/suggestions SharkBait.


Spellbook updated using excellent suggestions.

I'm a terrible person for it taking this long, sorry about that  8).

Anyways, yes, as you point out the FH and the LB are both ethereal with one rolling more dice. However, I do not believe 6 vs 7 dice changes THAT much against a raincloud (including hawkeye in that calc) and LB is more generally useful. So your reasoning is super sound on that one, I just prefer the bolt.

I tend to go the opposite direction of Coshade, and by that I mean I've cut battleforge all together. It is too much of an investment into things that are frivolous (at least in the way I play the adramelech warlock). I'd rather spend the mana on curses, a big defender/buffer, or just outright attack. Wasting mana to get another leather piece on (or in the case of this book, reforging something I have already) has rarely been more optimal than saving that mana for other uses and just putting on a cloak of shadows and using your creatures for defense. If they come into range 1 to get at you, they're in your killzone and should burn for that ;).

Any more to report with this? What's worked for you and what hasn't using this book?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 10:58:12 AM by SharkBait »
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littlenog

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2016, 09:59:35 PM »
Okay lets see what we have here.

For Attack spells your doing fine I feel.  I think Fire Storm could be on your list.  I’m also not sure on Firestream.. I’d run 2 more unavoidable Flameblast and just suffer the 7+ vs the 6+.  Surging wave if you really want to make a creature not be able to hit you.  Song of Love last 2 turns vs Surging Waves 1.

4 x Flameblast which is quite a lot.. Maybe go 4 or 5 save a sbp or 2.
2 x Firestream (- 2spb)

Equipment

-- (I think you really need a weapon in this build)= 5 Dice with even a basic Mage Staff/Fire Whip saves you 7 to 8 mana.  Personally I prefer high mana equipment so if they want to dissolve it, it is going to cost them.

--- (You have 2 total armor in a rush down build...  1 Rust and your Defenseless)

Both are cheap adds for a Warlock if your planning on taking advantage of burns and curses.
These two are passable slots though.  The gauntlets at 3 mana to equip are really efficient for +1 Melee.
----(No Neck Slot) +1 Channeling
-----(No Glove Slot) +1 Melee

Conjuration
[Enchantment Wards??]
2 x  Battle Forge
1 x  Mana Crystal
2 x  Wall of Bones

Creature
1 x  Flaming Hellion
1 x  Dark Pact Slayer (Solid Creature)

Enchantment
1 vs 2 x  Hawkeye (Free up 2 sbp)  Are you going to cast this twice or be nuking (See how often you actually cast these spells)
1 vs 2 x  Akiro's Favor (Free up 2 sbp) Are you going to cast this spell twice or be nuking (See how often you actually cast these spells)
2 x  Marked for Death (Free up 1 sbp)
2 x  Enfeeble
2 x  Rust
2 x  Poisoned Blood (Good)
1 x  Adramelech's Touch
2 x  Arcane Ward (Excellent Choice)
1 x  Nullify
Incantation
3 x  Dispel
1 vs 3 x  Seeking Dispel (Free -4 sbp)
2 x  Dissolve
1 x  Crumble
2 x  Disarm  (-4 spb)
1 x  Teleport
1 x  Force Push

WITH 15 Free Points
(The idea it to put spells they have to remove)  Once they are out of dispels / mage wands then you can put on your single buff spells, and if they are removing those then the other curses are staying)

2 x Mage Banes +2 sbp (Will eat through dispels)
2 x Ghoul Rots +4 sbp (Can get purified)  Alternate choices Chains of Agony and Curse Item
1 x Flame Whip (Or whatever it is called :) ) +2 sbp 6 Dice + burn chance with Fireshaper Ring on
1 x Imp Familiar Free your Actions and can get out early curses for 1 mana. +3sbp
1 x Mongoose Agility (To avoid guards) +2 sbp
1 x Cheetah Speed (Or Wolf Pack Fury +1 Melee +1 Piercing) +2sbp

If they are dissolving anything other than your Elemental Wands it is a win for you.

Red Curses are spells you Imp can cast that will save you actions which you can use for Melee attacks.

Borg

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 05:17:30 AM »
Thank you SharkBait & littlenog for your time and excellent advice.

I played three games with the book a couple of days ago and came to a few conclusions.

... I mean I've cut battleforge all together. It is too much of an investment into things that are frivolous (at least in the way I play the adramelech warlock). I'd rather spend the mana on curses, a big defender/buffer, or just outright attack.

That is spot on.
You don't need the BF at all for the very reasons you mentioned. ( saves 6 sbp's )

The idea it to put spells they have to remove. Once they are out of dispels / mage wands then you can put on your single buff spells, and if they are removing those then the other curses are staying)

My approach with this book was to go aggressive early and simply use the minimal amount of most effective curses to go with that, but I've come to experience that approaching it the other way round, like you and SharkBait are suggesting : play "must dispel" curses first, draw out their Dispels and destroy any Mage wands, then bring out your attack boosting enchantments is a much more effective strategy which involves also less "risk-taking" on your part.
Just to say, I'm "in" :)

Onto the Spells.

I can see Firestream have a place in this but I'm going to replace them with Flameblast again anyway.
That Unavoidable trait makes attacking so much less complicated.

I tried the Firestream on a Wand in my first game and promptly ran into a Reverse Attack on my second use of it. Befitting the situation, that was also my best attack roll of the evening. Imagine my embarassment ;)

Old lessons relearned : don't attack with avoidable attack spells first when the opponent has FD enchantments.

Bottomline : if you want to have the possibility to sprinkle an Attack spell around at any convenient time, without having to worry about it being returned to your face, Flameblast is your nr 1 choice.

Sersiryx,
After the Battle Forges didn't work out as expected this was exactly what I thought to replace it with.
Makes perfect sense, especially with your curses-first approach.

I did keep the Flameblasts at 6 because I do Expect Sersiryx to eat into them somewhat as well at some point.
With a Curse/Marked for Death on the opponent he does roll 5/6 attack dice with 6+ Burn Chance and a potential 1 heal for just 4 mana on the mage's part.

Flaming Hellion.
I understand why he may be the man "out".
Casting Sersyrix and the DPS drains 25 mana from your reserves already and two full casts and he doesn't fit into your early strategy.
Yet, I don't like to see him go as I wonder if there may not be match-ups where you would rather have him than one of the other two ( Vs Necro, Druid ? )
I'm really interested on hearing your thoughts on that.

Lash of hellfire
is a card that has been in and out of the book multiple times but I always came to the same conclusion.
I prefered Bear Strength over the Lash.
3 mana cheaper and you just lose 1 attack die while your Burn chances remain considerably higher. (5 vs 7)
It also fits perfectly in this strategy of drawing the Dispels out First with Curses, meaning the BS is probably more likely to stay in play than the Lash.
Something else to consider, the BS can also be put on your Slayer and even on Sersiryx should such a situation present itself.

Purify and Remove Curse.
I know they cost triple but they are worth it imo.
Being cursed yourself and being drawn out of your Dispels is not a good evolution either.
Tainted markers hurt.

Enchantment Transfusion
This card was not mentioned but I reckon having one on board guarantees that Sersiryx can start casting Curses as soon as R2. I think this is more of a staple card in Curse books.

I updated the book in the opening post.
Looking forward to your replies.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:18:40 PM by Borg »
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littlenog

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 10:47:14 AM »
That new list looks solid.

I would suggest 2 mage banes.  1 sbp and almost a must remove.

I like poison blood as an option vs Deathlok because you can still heal yourself.

I think 1 Drain Soul would be the only other thing I would look to add.
6 Direct damage is really useful and 6 life gain.

I'll post my book later today when I get home.
I do think Drain Soul should be a spell in reserve.

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 12:30:55 PM »
I've been trying out different openings with Sersiryx and I don't think he's what I'm looking for.

At 12 mana he's rather expensive, which severely limits my possibilities during the opening rounds ( he's like Fellella in that regard ) but most of all he's a "commitment" which I may not be willing to make that early in the game.
Playing him after R2 on the other hand doesn't feel right either.

I'd like to hear some comments from players who have used him successfully.

So far, without the Forges, the opening I like the most is
R1 Cloak - Crystal
R2 Ghoul Rot - Magebane FD on yourself
R3 Enchantment Transfusion both Curses to enemy mage

With the Cloak and crystal on R1 you have two spells in play you're sure you want to play and you leave your options open for R2.
If you need the Slayer R2, you can.
If you open with Sersiryx - Crystal, you can't have the Slayer active before R4 which gives me an uneasy feel.

So, at this point I'm inclined to put the Hellion back in.
If someone can convince me on Sersiryx, please do. ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 12:35:25 PM by Borg »
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Coshade

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2016, 12:48:04 PM »
Yeah man I gave up on Sersiryx and even Hellion in my Adramelech book. I think they can be used, just my style isn't going in that direction.
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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2016, 01:15:35 PM »
I think 1 Drain Soul would be the only other thing I would look to add.
6 Direct damage is really useful and 6 life gain.

Drain Soul is really for another style of book imo.
For 16 mana I can play 2 Fireballs and roll about 20 attack dice. ;)
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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2016, 04:10:00 PM »
I can see Firestream have a place in this but I'm going to replace them with Flameblast again anyway.
That Unavoidable trait makes attacking so much less complicated.

I have a very similar book, although played differently, but I think 4x Flameblast and 2x Firestream is the right split.

I'm not debating that Flameblast is better, it's flatout much better, and Unavoidable is the largest part of that. Flameblast is 5 mana though whilst Firestream is 4, and when you only have 4 mana, it doesn't matter how much better Flameblast is... I'd rather Firestream than miss an attack.

I've been trying out different openings with Sersiryx and I don't think he's what I'm looking for.

At 12 mana he's rather expensive, which severely limits my possibilities during the opening rounds ( he's like Fellella in that regard ) but most of all he's a "commitment" which I may not be willing to make that early in the game.

I'd like to hear some comments from players who have used him successfully.

No, Sersiryx (like many familiars and spawnpoints) is too expensive. Particularly an aggressive familiar for an aggressive mage has to produce an aggression advantage quickly - and spending 1.33 turns mana production  is the opposite of that.

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Re: Fireslinger - Adramelech Warlock
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2016, 09:27:03 PM »


So far, without the Forges, the opening I like the most is
R1 Cloak - Crystal
R2 Ghoul Rot - Magebane FD on yourself
R3 Enchantment Transfusion both Curses to enemy mage


What's the benefit of casting the curses FD on yourself and using ET to move both curses to enemy mage? Hoping to learn something new here. Thanks!
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