Spiked Pit (Domination terrain)

[iNano78]

Does a Spiked Pit marker disappear if it fails the d12=9+ roll? Or does it only disappear after it is successful? (Wording in the rules is vague and could be interpreted either way)

[Laddinfance]

The trap token stays until the trap is tripped by rolling a 9+.

[exid]

I think the wording (with 2 sentences) isn't vague at all: it indicates that the marker disapears even if the roll fails!

the rules should be erated.

[iNano78]

I think the wording (with 2 sentences) isn't vague at all: it indicates that the marker disapears even if the roll fails!

the rules should be erated.

The very first time we played it, I think we interpreted it "as written" and removed the token the first time a non-flying creature entered the zone, whether it triggered or not.  Then we realized it's only a 33% chance to trigger, so the intent must be that it sticks around until it triggers (since otherwise it rarely is more than a zone that hinders non-flying creatures)... so we have since been playing "as intended."  It's a matter of what the "Then," is referring to.

Here's the rule book text for reference:

At the start of the game, place the Spiked Pit marker on this zone. While the Spiked Pit Trap marker is on this
zone, when a Non-Flying Corporeal creature enters this zone, roll the effect die: On a 9+ that creature receives an Unavoidable attack of 4 attack dice with the Piercing +2 trait. Then, remove the Spiked Pit Trap marker. Also, this zone hinders Non-Flying Corporeal creatures, regardless of whether it has a Spiked Pit Trap marker or not.

Better wording would have been "On a 9+, that creature receives an Unavoidable attack of 4 attack dice with the Piercing +2 trait after which the Spiked Pit Trap marker is removed." Or something like that.  It needs to explicitly be part of "what happens after rolling a 9+" and not "what happens after a non-flying corporeal creature enters the zone".

[Donovan]

I agree that "Then" is amgiguous.

It would already be different if it became part of the previous sentence: ", then".

[RomeoXero]

There's a full colon there, that usualy indicates a triggerable circumstance that happens as a whole. So everything after the colon happens whenever the trigger is described. What follows the colon is on a 9+, that means whatever follows that only happens on a9+. Made sense to me

[jhaelen]

There's a full colon there, that usualy indicates a triggerable circumstance that happens as a whole.

what do you mean by 'usually'? Is there any kind of definition anywhere in the Mage Wars rules?

[theasaris]

What happens when there is a Teleport Trap enchantment in the zone? Who decides which effect triggers first (if there is a choice to be made)? As there is no controller of the zone effect, is it the controller of the active creature?

[Zuberi]

I could be mistaken on this, but here is my answer:

Both effects trigger simultaneously during the Entering Zone Effects step of movement. They can not take effect simultaneously though, so we have a timing issue. Despite the chance that the person with Initiative might not control any of the objects in question, the game has well established the fact that they are the ones who decide any timing issues that arise during game play whenever it is in question. Thus, whomever has Initiative should decide which occurs first.

However, even if Teleport Trap occurs first, the Spiked Pit still has to resolve it's triggered effect. The teleport happens before it makes it's attack (if it rolls a 9+), so the rules about moving during an attack do not apply. They moved before the attack, not during. But there is still a catch. The rulebook doesn't specify this, but the marker itself does have a melee attack icon on it. And if it is a melee attack, then if the target has moved out of the zone it will be out of range of the attack during the Declare Attack Step. This would result in the attack being cancelled.

Then the question becomes whether or not the marker is removed if the attack is cancelled? I am not sure, but given what's in the rulebook and Laddinfance's previous statement, I would say it is removed whenever it is tripped by rolling a 9+ on the effect die, regardless of if the attack was successful or not. This topic could use an update in the Supplement.

[exid]

Despite the chance that the person with Initiative might not control any of the objects in question, the game has well established the fact that they are the ones who decide any timing issues that arise during game play whenever it is in question. Thus, whomever has Initiative should decide which occurs first.

the person with initiative doesn't choose, he goes first.
i think it's no help here. rules should give an initiative vlue to neutral mecanismes (after all players or befor all players)

[Zuberi]

the person with initiative doesn't choose, he goes first.

I believe you are thinking about revealing enchantments. The Spiked Pit tile is not an enchantment and doesn't fall under those rules. I refer you to the Codex.

Initiative (Game Term)
Players take turns having the initiative, which is noted with an initiative marker. Whoever has the initiative gets to use their quickcast action first during a Quickcast Phase, and gets to take the first Action Phase during the Action Stage. Also, it is used to resolve any timing issues.

This is a timing issue. Whomever has initiative resolves the issue. Similar to what happens during the Upkeep phase, where the wording on page 7 of the rulebook is "In the rare case that a timing issue occurs, the player with the initiative decides the order."

[exid]

but the rules on p6 say: the player with the initiative goes first "whenever you must determine the order of events"!

for me there's only one moment with choice, it's during the upkeep.
normally each player chooses for his effectrs, and the player with initiative chooses if necessary (special upkeep rule p7 gets over normal rule p6)

back to the pit: there's no rule since he has no intitiative and doesn't trigger during upkeep.
i think we need a rulling (giving an initiative to neutral effects).

[Laddinfance]

In this case, you have two effects triggered by the same thing. One of those is uncontrolled. So, Zuberi is correct. Initiative is used to break timing issues like this.

[Sailor Vulcan]

In this case, you have two effects triggered by the same thing. One of those is uncontrolled. So, Zuberi is correct. Initiative is used to break timing issues like this.

Just to make things clear for everyone then, if a creature has 2 life after damage left and has a regrowth and a ghoul rot on them, this doesn't count as a timing issue, and it's still decided by the creature's controller, not by player with initiative?

[exid]

In this case, you have two effects triggered by the same thing. One of those is uncontrolled. So, Zuberi is correct. Initiative is used to break timing issues like this.

but i don't find the rule on which he stands to say that the personne with the initiative will choose...