Late spawnpoint = No victory?

[fas723]

I have played a couple of games now and different tactics have been successful. However in every game has the spawnpoint been crusial and the major factor to if I won or not. Basically the one who placed his spawnpoint out first in every game has won (this has actually been the case every single time). It even occured Beast Master vs. Wizzard.

My conclusion. Late spawnpoint = No victory.

Am I right? Are the spawnpoint too powerfull? I get a bit sad thinking about it since I want it not to be true...

[Klaxas]

i have played many games and i have won without using a spawnpoint at all.  also remember an early spawnpoint is also a target.  they are not indusctructable.

although if your strategy revolves around a spawnpoint you generaly want it out sooner rather than later so it starts helping you right away.

[paradox22]

Agree with Klax, they aren't necessary.

[Shad0w]

In the base set I almost never use spawn points.

[goofy]

I don't like them at all. I never use them I still win. I think they r a wasted mana. U r going to run out of mana faster using them in the long run. But I have a friend that love them. I hardly ever attack them in game. I attack the mage before attacking the spawnpiont.

[piousflea]

Spawnpoints are only amazing if your build favors low-level creatures. Spawnpoints don't break-even on mana generation for 7-8 rounds at the earliest, and possibly significantly later. They are therefore a major mana-loss compared to throwing down a Mana Crystal or Flower. If your strategy revolves around summoning bigs, you'll get bigs out faster with mana crystal. The real advantage of a Lair or Pentagram is that you can much more easily conjure up a ton of level 1-2 creatures.

[Koz]

People who are discounting spawnpoints based solely on mana cost alone are overlooking the action advantage it provides.  Mana cost vs. mana generated is a logical calculation to be made when considering things like Mana Crystals / Mana Flowers, but I would argue that the number of actions you are able to preform per turn is a more important resource than mana is.  Spawnpoints allow you to continue to summon creatures into the game without spending an action to do it, and having more creatures out gives you more attack actions per turn.  Spawnpoints basically create an ever increasing tide of action advantages that cannot be overlooked when calculating their usefulness.

[Shad0w]

Action advantage is the core reason to use spawn points. The trick is though a spawn point burns an action to cast it. So the first creature you summon still has you down an action. The second creature you summon breaks you even on actions. When you get to the third creature and beyond that is when you start get an advantage on actions. If I do not plan on having more than 3 creatures in play over the course of a match. It is hard to justify the spawn point.

That said in swarm books it is easy to gain action advantage for even one spawn point in play.

[Jon.Ambriz]

I hardly ever use spawn points unless I have a lot of low mana cost creatures in my book and I'm running a swarm. When I see a spawn point come out I immediately change my turn order to account for in advantage in summoning that my opponent has. Though, depending on when a spawn point comes into play also in a big thing to pay attention to.

If a Mage brings in a spawn point early game, then I assume they are going to be swarming with a lot of creatures and I have to destroy that spawn point as soon as possible to cut down his/her summoning potential. Or I have to block the summoned creatures in the zone they are summoned in so I have a few rounds to take care of the creatures, whether through DOT damage or attacking walls.

[fas723]

When we all talk about these things in this forum the breakeven point is always brought up:
"You don't make any gain in mana until turn 8" and so on.  But the truth is; mana is worth a lot more in situations where you are surrounded by enemy creatures or when you are going to make you final move. In the beginning you are not. Therefore it feels to me that it could be good to have invested in mana generating stuff up front.

Think of this situation. Either you have a Mage who channel 10 mana / turn or you have a Mage with progressive channeling:

10+10+10+10+10+10+10+10+10+10=100
0+5+10+12+12+12+12+12+12+12=99

Would it be a no-brainer to pick the flat rate even if the game only last 10 turns in total?

[Nihilistiskism]

Action advantage is the core reason to use spawn points. The trick is though a spawn point burns an action to cast it. So the first creature you summon still has you down an action. The second creature you summon breaks you even on actions. When you get to the third creature and beyond that is when you start get an advantage on actions. If I do not plan on having more than 3 creatures in play over the course of a match. It is hard to justify the spawn point.

That said in swarm books it is easy to gain action advantage for even one spawn point in play.

That's only one perspective:

It's always action advantage, because regardless of whether you are "breaking even" on actions over the long-haul, you are immediately not having to use precious actions from your Mage to create creatures.

That said, there is some severe discrepancy between the effectiveness of spawn points. Look at Gate of Voltari vs. the imminently crappy Warlock options, for example.

-nihil