The Frugal Mage Warrior: How to Share your Collection Fairly

[Sailor Vulcan]

So you're a Frugal Mage Warrior, and you've decided to share your collection with your playgroup. Things seemed to be going well, until you guys started building your spellbooks.

You argue over cards, and don't want to tell each other what cards are unavailable because those cards are in your book and you don't want your opponents to know that.  While it's possible for many casual players to get along just fine in this situation, ultimately it means that you know always know what's in your opponent's spellbook and it can be less balanced that way for reasons that have been discussed elsewhere.

But it doesn't have to be like that. It is possible to share your collection fairly. Let's solve this problem step by step:

There are two main problems with sharing your collection:
1. Your opponents know what cards you're using ahead of time and vice versa.
2. Fighting over cards

The most obvious solution to both of these that jumps out at me is to split the card pool into smaller parts and rotate them between players every so often. Of course, that runs into the problem of "what if X wants to play a warlord against Y who wants to play a Forcemaster?" That makes it sound like we'd have to make our own custom  "sets" from the cards we have. Furthermore, if you only have three sets for a playgroup of four or five people that can make things even worse. You could also try having people pair into teams each month and have them cooperate with their partner to build their spellbook. For instance, a forcemaster player would be partnered up with a warlord for a month, and they would take turns with the cards they need for their spellbooks using a smaller cardpool shared between the two of them, i.e. FvW, FiF and Core. Or you could just require all new additions to your playgroup past a certain point to have a core spell tome 1 and/or 2.

I recommend dividing everyone in your playgroup up into teams of 2 players each month, and assign each team a cardpool consisting of four small expansions or an equivalent thereof, where

1 Big Expansion=2 small expansions
Arena Core set=3 small expansions
Battlegrounds: Domination= 1 small expansion
Academy Core set=1 small expansion

This is two small expansions per person on average. If you have one of every set that currently exists in the game as of December 2nd, 2015, then you have about the equivalent of 13 small expansions. So if you leave out one small expansion each month, then you can support six teams of two plus one extra person who can rotate in and out of teams.

With only 1 Core set, 1 big expansion and 1 small expansion, you have the equivalent of 6 small expansions, and you can split the card pool into the core set on the one hand and the expansions on the other. However, you might need to split the main core set into three core spell tomes and rearrange the card pools, depending on how balanced this is.


Also, some cardpools might not be balanced with each other. Make sure to assign cardpools fairly.

Autoincludes and their alternatives and counters

Core: teleport, dispel, dissolve
Battelgrounds Domination: astral anchor, cascading forcewave
Forged in Fire: disarm, rust
Academy: arcane ward, crumble, disperse
Druid vs Necromancer: acid ball, corrosive orchid

Conquest of Kumanjaro has Wizard Tower.
Academy has arcane ward, Conquest of Kumanjaro has Enchanter's Wardstones, Domination has reinforce and Auto Kronig, Forged in Fire has Conquer and Wall of Earth, Druid vs Necromancer has Cloak of Shadows, and Blur will be released in a future expansion.

If any opponents both 1. do not have teleport or wizard tower in their card pools and 2. don't have sufficient counters to teleport and wizard tower in their card pools, then feel free to house rule those cards.



As for those who want to play a forcemaster against a warlord, or a druid against a necromancer, you're probably going to need to make some custom card pools for each player. However, that could take a bit of experimenting and feeling out the playstyles of your playgroup until you get it right.

[RomeoXero]

This is very interesting. Pre OCTGN I had found, as the resident owner of the game, that one can support two people ( barring mirror matches which are close to impossible) for any combination of things if one copy of everything is purchased. Only ran into one issue when I ran 6 tanglevines in a book. Of course owning one copy of everything currently out is cost prohibitive to get all at once and may be tough based on availability.

That being said this is an interesting breakdown. As a player who matches most of these criteria I thank you sir!

What I want to know is how do you handle group play situations where one person has everything and the others might only have core plus one or two expansions. Which is the situation I'm in right now lol. It just feels mean to use hurl meteorite on someone who doesn't have Domination ya know?

[Sailor Vulcan]

This is very interesting. Pre OCTGN I had found, as the resident owner of the game, that one can support two people ( barring mirror matches which are close to impossible) for any combination of things if one copy of everything is purchased. Only ran into one issue when I ran 6 tanglevines in a book. Of course owning one copy of everything currently out is cost prohibitive to get all at once and may be tough based on availability.

That being said this is an interesting breakdown. As a player who matches most of these criteria I thank you sir!

What I want to know is how do you handle group play situations where one person has everything and the others might only have core plus one or two expansions. Which is the situation I'm in right now lol. It just feels mean to use hurl meteorite on someone who doesn't have Domination ya know?

If everyone has a core set, a big expansion and a small expansion, then limit the size of your own card pool likewise. One core set, one big expansion and one small expansion is about the size of six small expansions. So for instance you could use a card pool of 1 core set, 1 battlegrounds: domination, and one big expansion. You can switch up your card pool every now and then, as long as each spellbook only uses at most six small expansions or an equivalent thereof.

That being said, a single copy of the core set can be used quite effectively even in the full metagame, but when it is used in the full metagame there are much fewer viable strategies to choose from. It's helpful for people to build more creatively, but not everyone is that skilled at spellbook building, and having a smaller card pool does still put them at a slight disadvantage.

[sIKE]

What I want to know is how do you handle group play situations where one person has everything and the others might only have core plus one or two expansions. Which is the situation I'm in right now lol. It just feels mean to use hurl meteorite on someone who doesn't have Domination ya know?

For casual games proxies work fine, and the same thing for 6 Tanglevine's. It helps alot if you sleeve your cards when using proxies, as you can use an unused card and slide the printed out proxy card in front of it.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I'm looking over what I've written and I'm not satisfied with it. There doesn't seem to be a good way to share the arena core set besides splitting it into three parts and play testing and changing those parts until they're equally powerful. Splitting sets and turning them into completely new custom one-Mage modular sets seems rather unfeasible since it would take a lot of play testing and people won't have the patience for that. So the solution can't involve splitting sets. And even if the core set could be split into three parts, it has 4 mages.

Unfortunately (as far as I know) there are cards in the core set which are not in the core spell tomes.

So we can't split sets, but if we don't split sets then how can a forcemaster play against a warlord without books being known ahead of time or players competing for cards that they can't both have?

I suppose you could try something like a drafting format, but instead of drafting a spellbook, you draft a card pool. Autoincludes would of course be handled separately. Not sure how well this would work. Think it's worth trying though.

[Puddnhead]

I tell people to use the forum spellbook builder, the app or the OCTGN builder and then just tell me what they want out of my collect that they don't have in their collection.  I can work around not having certain spells by playing a different mage or a different build for a mage.

If a friend wants to play and has NO cards I will give him free reign of my collection to build what he wants or to use a book that I have and play something else that lets him do what he wants to.  If he wants all of the tanglevines and boulders I'll run a book that doesn't need/use them.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I tell people to use the forum spellbook builder, the app or the OCTGN builder and then just tell me what they want out of my collect that they don't have in their collection.  I can work around not having certain spells by playing a different mage or a different build for a mage.

If a friend wants to play and has NO cards I will give him free reign of my collection to build what he wants or to use a book that I have and play something else that lets him do what he wants to.  If he wants all of the tanglevines and boulders I'll run a book that doesn't need/use them.

Except then you know what cards he's using in his spellbook and that makes hate strategies and removal more powerful.

I'll get my ideas for a cardpool-drafting format fleshed out and posted soon.

[wtcannonjr]

I tell people to use the forum spellbook builder, the app or the OCTGN builder and then just tell me what they want out of my collect that they don't have in their collection.  I can work around not having certain spells by playing a different mage or a different build for a mage.

If a friend wants to play and has NO cards I will give him free reign of my collection to build what he wants or to use a book that I have and play something else that lets him do what he wants to.  If he wants all of the tanglevines and boulders I'll run a book that doesn't need/use them.

Except then you know what cards he's using in his spellbook and that makes hate strategies and removal more powerful.

I'll get my ideas for a cardpool-drafting format fleshed out and posted soon.

Not if they are clever and request more cards than they actually use in a single book. i.e. their request for cards includes 'dummies'.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I tell people to use the forum spellbook builder, the app or the OCTGN builder and then just tell me what they want out of my collect that they don't have in their collection.  I can work around not having certain spells by playing a different mage or a different build for a mage.

If a friend wants to play and has NO cards I will give him free reign of my collection to build what he wants or to use a book that I have and play something else that lets him do what he wants to.  If he wants all of the tanglevines and boulders I'll run a book that doesn't need/use them.

Except then you know what cards he's using in his spellbook and that makes hate strategies and removal more powerful.

I'll get my ideas for a cardpool-drafting format fleshed out and posted soon.

Not if they are clever and request more cards than they actually use in a single book. i.e. their request for cards includes 'dummies'.

And then the dummies are just extra cards that neither you nor your opponent can use.

[Ganpot]

Splitting up all the cards into smaller equivalent decks (and then having to re-assemble those decks every once in a while so players wouldn't learn which cards were in which deck) sounds like it would take a massive amount of time and effort.  There have to be easier ways to avoid fighting over cards and figuring out opponent's decks ahead of time. 

What about this:
1. Have every player participating in this program roll a d12 (with everyone else present).  This determines initiative order (higher numbers are better).  Re-roll if a tie ever occurs.  Write down the initiative order. 
2. The players secretly write down their top 4 Mage picks and hand these to someone not participating in the event (basically an impartial judge).  The judge rolls a d12 for each list, going by initiative order.  1-3 = 1st Mage choice / 4-6 = 2nd Mage choice / 7-9 = 3rd Mage choice / 10-12 = 4th Mage choice.  If a Mage is unavailable, the judge re-rolls the d12 until an available Mage is chosen.  In the unlikely event that none of the four choices submitted by a player are available, the judge privately tells that player to submit a new list of Mage choices, none of which may be the same as those previously submitted. 
3. Each player, after being secretly informed of which Mage they ended up with, looks through the collection of Mage Wars cards (I recommend using the website, personally) and compiles a list of 150 points of spell cards IN THE ORDER OF HOW BADLY THEY WANT EACH CARD (higher on list = more likely to get it).  The players DO NOT take any cards at this point. 
4. After each player submits his/her list of cards to the judge, the judge begins to distribute cards, one at a time, in initiative order (player 1 receives a card, then player 2, then player 3, etc.).  If a card is unavailable, it is skipped and the next card on the list is added instead.  While doing this, the judge keeps track of how many spell points are in each deck.  Once a deck reaches 120 spell points, it is complete.  If a deck's next chosen card would cause it to go over 120 points, that card is skipped.  If a deck list runs out before reaching 120 spell points, the judge tells the relevant player how many spell points remain to finish his/her deck, and tells him/her to submit a new list of roughly twice the needed amount of spell points required.   
5. Once every deck is finished, the judge hands each player his/her Mage and deck.  The judge then sets up a tournament structure in the agreed-upon format (round robin / double-elimination / etc.). 
6. Players compete.  After the tournament or event is complete, the judge and players disassemble the decks again. 

While this format does potentially allow players to figure out what other cards have been picked, they won't usually be sure which player picked them.  Additionally, the players most likely to figure out which Mages and cards have been picked are those who do not receive the cards and Mage they initially wanted.  In this way, I think balance remains more or less intact.  The only major downsides are that you need a non-participant, and this system doesn't work as well with 2-3 players. 

[Sailor Vulcan]

Splitting up all the cards into smaller equivalent decks (and then having to re-assemble those decks every once in a while so players wouldn't learn which cards were in which deck) sounds like it would take a massive amount of time and effort.  There have to be easier ways to avoid fighting over cards and figuring out opponent's decks ahead of time. 

What about this:
1. Have every player participating in this program roll a d12 (with everyone else present).  This determines initiative order (higher numbers are better).  Re-roll if a tie ever occurs.  Write down the initiative order. 
2. The players secretly write down their top 4 Mage picks and hand these to someone not participating in the event (basically an impartial judge).  The judge rolls a d12 for each list, going by initiative order.  1-3 = 1st Mage choice / 4-6 = 2nd Mage choice / 7-9 = 3rd Mage choice / 10-12 = 4th Mage choice.  If a Mage is unavailable, the judge re-rolls the d12 until an available Mage is chosen.  In the unlikely event that none of the four choices submitted by a player are available, the judge privately tells that player to submit a new list of Mage choices, none of which may be the same as those previously submitted. 
3. Each player, after being secretly informed of which Mage they ended up with, looks through the collection of Mage Wars cards (I recommend using the website, personally) and compiles a list of 150 points of spell cards IN THE ORDER OF HOW BADLY THEY WANT EACH CARD (higher on list = more likely to get it).  The players DO NOT take any cards at this point. 
4. After each player submits his/her list of cards to the judge, the judge begins to distribute cards, one at a time, in initiative order (player 1 receives a card, then player 2, then player 3, etc.).  If a card is unavailable, it is skipped and the next card on the list is added instead.  While doing this, the judge keeps track of how many spell points are in each deck.  Once a deck reaches 120 spell points, it is complete.  If a deck's next chosen card would cause it to go over 120 points, that card is skipped.  If a deck list runs out before reaching 120 spell points, the judge tells the relevant player how many spell points remain to finish his/her deck, and tells him/her to submit a new list of roughly twice the needed amount of spell points required.   
5. Once every deck is finished, the judge hands each player his/her Mage and deck.  The judge then sets up a tournament structure in the agreed-upon format (round robin / double-elimination / etc.). 
6. Players compete.  After the tournament or event is complete, the judge and players disassemble the decks again. 

While this format does potentially allow players to figure out what other cards have been picked, they won't usually be sure which player picked them.  Additionally, the players most likely to figure out which Mages and cards have been picked are those who do not receive the cards and Mage they initially wanted.  In this way, I think balance remains more or less intact.  The only major downsides are that you need a non-participant, and this system doesn't work as well with 2-3 players. 

Yeah. I suppose using this same method for card pools instead of individual decks would take too long. The problem with drafting decks instead of cardpools is that you have less freedom to build your deck how you want to from the cards you have available, since instead of getting cards assigned first and then building a deck from that set of cards, you start building your deck before you even know what all the cards you have are. I suppose that if one does not use proxies or online play, then a mage wars collection would be better off only being shared between exactly two people. But if you do use proxies or online play, then that would allow you to take turns with the real life cards more easily.

[sIKE]

Proxies