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Author Topic: 3 easy questions  (Read 3312 times)

exid

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3 easy questions
« on: November 08, 2015, 02:10:35 AM »
during the game last night, we had 3 hesitations:

1) when revers magic reverses an enchantment, the controler of the RM becomes the controler of the enchantement until the end of the game?

2) if a nulify and a revers magic are on the same object, they are both trigered by the first incantation/enchantement?

3) if a blue goblin has a charge and moves by teleportation, does the charge bonus apply?
this is a true question: teleportation gives him no momentum (and a teleport spell wouldn't trigger the charge), but the rule says that the charge bonus comes after a move action and this teleport is his move action... so...

Borg

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Re: 3 easy questions
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2015, 03:31:43 AM »
during the game last night, we had 3 hesitations:

1) when revers magic reverses an enchantment, the controler of the RM becomes the controler of the enchantement until the end of the game?

2) if a nulify and a revers magic are on the same object, they are both trigered by the first incantation/enchantement?

3) if a blue goblin has a charge and moves by teleportation, does the charge bonus apply?
this is a true question: teleportation gives him no momentum (and a teleport spell wouldn't trigger the charge), but the rule says that the charge bonus comes after a move action and this teleport is his move action... so...

It's probably best to wait for Laddinfance or Zuberi to have the official answer but imo

1- The targeted player only gains control of the enchantment from the moment his Reverse Magic is revealed until the enchantment has resolved. From that point on the enchantment is controlled by it's owner again.

2- Yes, both must be revealed during the Counter Spell Step. As with all effects happening at the same time, eg upkeep, you decide the order of your effects, so you decide which to resolve first, the second spell will fizzle. atm I cannot come up with a good reason to play both Nullify and RM on the same creature, either one or the other but not both as one will fizzle anyway.

3- Teleportation is not moving, so the charge does not trigger imo. If you want the Charge to trigger you should not pay the 1 mana to give him Fast and make him Teleport. btw [mwcard=MW1I04] Charge[/mwcard] already gives you the Fasr trait and allows you to move two zones so there's no need to use the Gremlins ability to give him Fast, unless you need to bypass walls or are otherwise hindered.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 03:36:29 AM by Borg »
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sIKE

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Re: 3 easy questions
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2015, 09:02:57 AM »
So I have been on the fourms for quite a long time and this is not the first time ithat item #3  has been asked. At one point it had been ruled that it would work:

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=2137.msg18785#msg18785

but then this was said

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14593.msg41779#msg41779

and I am not sure if there was any more work on this, but if it hasn't been reversed then yes the BG gains Charge with its teleport, but the ruling doesn't apply to teleportation in general.
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jacksmack

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Re: 3 easy questions
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2015, 09:19:12 AM »
question 1 @ Borg.

It make no sense that you do not gain permanent control of an enchantment. How are you gonna reveal it then.

To answer question 1:
I believe you own the spell until end of game or your opponenet steals it with 'steal enchantment'.

question 2.
They both must be revealed. You choose if you want to pay for 0, 1 or 2.
In reality you only ever pick 0 or 1 becauuse choosing to pay for both you would decide the order of resolving them. And regardless of what you resolve first - when it comes to nr 2 it will have no effect because its either countered or moved.
anyway... both Must be revealed.

question 3.
No Charge bonus when you spend 1 mana. This is also stated in the codex supplement.
its a pretty long entry but this is the important part in relation to your question:

Teleporting to a zone counts the same as a move action for the purpose of the number of actions you can perform in a round, but are not “move actions” for any other purpose.

So no chain of agony damage and no Charge bonus when spending 1 mana with the Blue Gremlin.
Also Supression Orb  does not affect the Gremlin if he is teleporting.

Borg

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Re: 3 easy questions
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2015, 09:49:35 AM »
question 1 @ Borg.
It make no sense that you do not gain permanent control of an enchantment. How are you gonna reveal it then.
To answer question 1:
I believe you own the spell until end of game or your opponenet steals it with 'steal enchantment'.

That may be correct.
I looked up the card in the codex, unfortunately the two examples given are incantations.
No example with an enchantment. Though strictly reading it, it does indeed seem like you gain control of it until end of game or until it's destroyed but I'm not 100% sure.

Here's the codex text :

Reverse Magic
Current Text: "When this creature is targeted by an incantation or enchantment spell controlled by an opponent, you must reveal Reverse Magic during the Counter Spell Step. Redirect it back to the caster, who now becomes the target of the spell. You become the caster of that spell, and now control that spell, and may reselect any other choices the spell requires you to make. Recalculate the total mana cost of the spell; if the new cost is higher than the original cost, you must pay the difference. Then, destroy Reverse Magic."

If the spell has secondary targets you can choose new secondary targets. If a hidden enchantment is Reversed, the new controller of the enchantment may look at it. However, you may not look at it before deciding whether or not to pay the reveal cost of Reverse Magic. If you cannot or do not want to pay the difference after recalculating the mana cost, you may cancel the spell instead.

Example: A Warlock casts Dissolve on a Wizard, and selects the Wizard's Regrowth Belt (cost 6). The Wizard reveals Reverse Magic, paying the reveal cost of 5. The Wizard can then reselect one of the Warlock's equipment to destroy. For example, suppose the only equipment the Warlock has is a Lash of Hellfire (cost 8 ). In that case, the Wizard could reselect that, paying 2 additional mana, and destroying the Lash of Hellfire, or he could just cancel the spell instead. (If he did not have the 2 additional mana available, he would have to cancel the spell.) If the Warlock had an equipment with cost less than 6, and the Wizard chose that piece of equipment instead, the Wizard would not get mana refunded.

Example: A Warlock casts Force Push on a Wizard without paying the additional 3 mana to push through a wall, and the Wizard reveals Reverse Magic, paying the reveal cost of 5. The Wizard could pay the additional 3 mana to push the Warlock through a wall if he wanted to. (Effectively you recalculate the cost, and with the additional cost the new cost is 6 while the original cost was 3, so the difference is 3 and that's what you have to pay.) If the Warlock had cast the spell and had paid the additional 3 mana, then the reversed spell could push the Warlock though a wall without the Wizard having to pay any extra.

Only one of the targets of the reversed spell needs to be the original spell’s caster. The caster of the reversed spell is free to select any other targets, as well as any other choices made “when you cast this.”

If a spell has multiple targets, a Reverse Magic on any of the targets will cancel (and reverse) the whole spell.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 09:53:33 AM by Borg »
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exid

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Re: 3 easy questions
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2015, 10:14:03 AM »
Thanks!

@jacksmack: I missed this line in the BG entry... it's perfectly clear.