Timing : At the end of action + Quickcast

[gw]

I remember there was a thread about a timing question regarding [mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ02]Wizard's Tower[/mwcard] - sth. like "Can a Mage use his action then QC a tower and then use it?", which was answered as "yes, he can" (which confused me a bit  ).

Similar question now. The situation is :

1. Warlock uses his action to move and cast a curse.
2. Warlock uses his quickcast to cast an [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ01]Adramelech's Torment[/mwcard].
3. Warlock places a burn condition on target of 1. -> possible ?

Note that there is a wording difference :
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ02]Wizard's Tower[/mwcard] : After action phase
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ01]Adramelech's Torment[/mwcard] : At the end of action phase
Quickcast : After action phase (Rulebookv3.3 , p.8 )

Question 1 : Is that a rule sensitive wording ?
and based on that
Question 2 : Can the Warlock use the [mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ01]Adramelech's Torment[/mwcard] ability to place a burn ?

EDIT:
Obviously, this boils down to the "after vs at th end" wording -  a difference in wording, which I've never stumbled upon before. Also it doesn't make a difference if I change the order of curse and AT.

EDIT2:
Added QC wording

[sIKE]

Remember the Phase is called the Creature Action Phases and each Creature has it own Action Phase. So yes you could you Warlock can make the play as you have described.

[gw]

Even though Quickcast is worded as "can be used after action" , too ?

Still irritated why something can be cast "after action" via QC but can be then used "at the end of action" (which I read as being in/part of the action and not after).

[exid]

if the "end of the phase" is the moment folowing the phase, then it's the same moment as the moment coming "after the phase", you can do a lot of things during this moment... but does this moment exist?

[sIKE]

Apparently, yes during "The Action Stage" but no during "The Ready Stage", this is the major part of the big Enchantment Revealing resolution process.

[gw]

So, both wordings mean the same and it is not a rule sensitive difference.

thx 

EDIT: or not ?

[Kharhaz]

Remember the Phase is called the Creature Action Phases and each Creature has it own Action Phase. So yes you could you Warlock can make the play as you have described.

I don't think so sIKE.

Rules pg 9:

"When the creature’s actions are complete, resolve any effects that occur at the end of its Action Phase. "

&

"Remember that before you activate a creature (including your Mage), or immediately after you have completed its Action Phase, you can use your quickcast action (if your quickcast marker is active)."

By that wording you would have to use the ability on torment before you activate your mage's quickcast because the requirements on Torment is that it must resolve at the end of the action phase.

quickcast phase != action phase

creatures action phase - > resolve all end of action effects -> action phase completes -> quickcast phase.

Here is a identical question and answer for the same situation:

Temple of Light can only be used during the Action Phases part of the Action Stage, and if must be directly before or after one of your creature action phases.

[sIKE]

Remember the Phase is called the Creature Action Phases and each Creature has it own Action Phase. So yes you could you Warlock can make the play as you have described.

I don't think so sIKE.

Rules pg 9:

"When the creature’s actions are complete, resolve any effects that occur at the end of its Action Phase. "

&

"Remember that before you activate a creature (including your Mage), or immediately after you have completed its Action Phase, you can use your quickcast action (if your quickcast marker is active)."

By that wording you would have to use the ability on torment before you activate your mage's quickcast because the requirements on Torment is that it must resolve at the end of the action phase.

quickcast phase != action phase

creatures action phase - > resolve all end of action effects -> action phase completes -> quickcast phase.

Here is a identical question and answer for the same situation:

Temple of Light can only be used during the Action Phases part of the Action Stage, and if must be directly before or after one of your creature action phases.

Ok I think this is the same thing that happened at the Tourney. If the Mage Quickcasts after his Action Phase it is done at the End of the Mages Action Phase. As long as the next Creature is not Activated you are still at the End of the Mages Action Phase. At least that is what I was thinking.

[Kharhaz]

Ok I think this is the same thing that happened at the Tourney. If the Mage Quickcasts after his Action Phase it is done at the End of the Mages Action Phase. As long as the next Creature is not Activated you are still at the End of the Mages Action Phase. At least that is what I was thinking.

I've slept since then so I don't remember much of the Tourney

That sounds about right. I was thinking the final quickcast phase of the action stage and not adding to "the end of the action phase" window.

[Zuberi]

No. "At the end of"is not the same as "after".  Sike seems to be trying to say there is no space between action phases, but that is definitely not how the game works. Quick cast, enchantments, and many conjuration effects happen between action phases, not during them. Meanwhile things like Adramelechs Torment happening at the end of an action phase are happening during an action phase. Thus you can not use its effect after quick casting a curse.

[sIKE]

No, I am not, there is space between a creatures Action Phase. What I was trying to say was wrong, Kharhaz was correct, the sequence of events described in the OP are illegal.

[exid]

it's the difference between:
"creature’s actions are complete"
and
"after you have completed its Action Phase"
...


the creature's events -> events of the end of the action phase -> end of the action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> envents after the action phase -> begining of next creature's action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> ...
is that right?

[Zuberi]

the creature's events -> events of the end of the action phase -> end of the action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> envents after the action phase -> begining of next creature's action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> ...
is that right?

Yes

No, I am not, there is space between a creatures Action Phase. What I was trying to say was wrong, Kharhaz was correct, the sequence of events described in the OP are illegal.

I apologize for my implication. I didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, that's just what it sounded like to me.

[exid]

the creature's events -> events of the end of the action phase -> end of the action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> envents after the action phase -> begining of next creature's action phase (this is only a limit, no envents here) -> ...
is that right?

Yes

if everybody agrees, it's simple!
but it would be cool to write it in the rulles (in the middle of a game, if such a problem apears, it's hard to make a decision)

[gw]

Yea, makes sense. Thank you.