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Author Topic: FM solo build needs advice  (Read 3755 times)

EggShen

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FM solo build needs advice
« on: October 18, 2015, 11:45:44 AM »
Hey all.  Posting this up for advice.

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Me Against the World[/spellbookname]
[mage]Forcemaster[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA05]2 x  Invisible Fist[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]2 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x  Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x  Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1w04]2 x  Wall of Thorns[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e02]2 x  Block[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e06]1 x  Circle of Lightning[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x  Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e17]1 x  Force Orb[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE05]1 x  Forcefield[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e20]1 x  Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x  Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]2 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]2 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e32]1 x  Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e33]2 x  Retaliate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e36]2 x  Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]1 x  Vampirism[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ07]1 x  Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ01]1 x  Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x  Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q09]1 x  Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ03]1 x  Force Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ04]1 x  Galvitar, Force Blade[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q11]1 x  Gauntlets of Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ10]1 x  Storm Drake Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]1 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i04]2 x  Charge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]1 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI03]2 x  Force Bash[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI05]1 x  Mass Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]2 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i26]2 x  Sleep[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

I've played multiple mages with this FM, Was using a Guardian Angel and a couple of Thoughtspores initially, but i found that i havent gotten a good strat for keeping spores alive, and the GA doesnt really solve my problem of getting out-actioned, so i wanna see how a solo build is gonna carry over.  Problem children are druids, as always, and acid balls make me wish i was packing more defenses, as this is more of an armor/defense balance, seeing as i'm going to get swung at a lot. 

If anyone wants to help me mod this so i can be a little more threatening in a group situation, i'm all ears.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 03:47:45 PM »
Hey all.  Posting this up for advice.

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Me Against the World[/spellbookname]
[mage]Forcemaster[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA05]2 x  Invisible Fist[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]2 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x  Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x  Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1w04]2 x  Wall of Thorns[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e02]2 x  Block[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e06]1 x  Circle of Lightning[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x  Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e17]1 x  Force Orb[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE05]1 x  Forcefield[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e20]1 x  Harmonize[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x  Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]2 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]2 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e32]1 x  Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e33]2 x  Retaliate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e36]2 x  Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]1 x  Vampirism[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ07]1 x  Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ01]1 x  Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x  Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q09]1 x  Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ03]1 x  Force Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ04]1 x  Galvitar, Force Blade[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q11]1 x  Gauntlets of Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ10]1 x  Storm Drake Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q06]1 x  Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i04]2 x  Charge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]1 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI03]2 x  Force Bash[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI05]1 x  Mass Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]2 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i26]2 x  Sleep[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

I've played multiple mages with this FM, Was using a Guardian Angel and a couple of Thoughtspores initially, but i found that i havent gotten a good strat for keeping spores alive, and the GA doesnt really solve my problem of getting out-actioned, so i wanna see how a solo build is gonna carry over.  Problem children are druids, as always, and acid balls make me wish i was packing more defenses, as this is more of an armor/defense balance, seeing as i'm going to get swung at a lot. 

If anyone wants to help me mod this so i can be a little more threatening in a group situation, i'm all ears.

What are your opening moves? What's your gameplan? How do you want to win? This deck seems like it wants to do a battle forge solo rush, but from what you said about taking out guardian angel and thoughtspores it sounds like you're not entirely sure what kind of foremaster you want to play.
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EggShen

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 09:48:27 PM »
Ive really been trying to base my opener on what ive come to expect from my current circle of opponents' play style.

usually it goes something like this:

1.(20) - harmonize self(16), move far center BF( 8 )
2.(18/1) - deploy Dancing Scimitar (14/0), move near center facedown, Mongoose agility if not playing against a druid, bear strength if it is an i'm looking at a steady stream of tanglevines(9/0)

i'm playing with 4-5 players in a simple house tourney right now.
From turn 3, i've seen druids attempt to keep me immobile with vine markers and tanglevines, wizards are using turns 3-4 to continue upkeep building, a warlord prepping to throw outposts in my half of the arena, etc.

I guess i havent really nailed down exactly what kind of outcome i'm looking for as of yet.  I've done particularly well the FM, but havent managed to lock down a winning strat.

Part of me wants to kill everything on the board, but i got frustrated and over that when mind controls and charms were the constant targets of dispels, so the obelisk strat got trimmed from the book.  It just seems like it's been really easy for my opponents to tech against the things i think are what are cool about the FM.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 05:19:41 AM »
Have you tried to bait their dispels? How many dispels are your opponents even running? Enchanter's wardstone also helps protect the forcemaster's enchantments, but they're not always necessary. Generally baiting enemy dispels and running more enchantments than they have dispels for tends to work well. Against a wizard with 6 dispels, you either want two enchanter's wardstones (if you're tanking) or simply win quickly before his max dispels become too much of an issue.

The forcemaster doesn't need extra channeling unless she's tanking. If she's rushing then she doesn't need the harmonize. In fact, mana crystal and moonglow amulet are generally better for increasing the mage's channeling, the crystal because it only costs 5 mana, the amulet because it's not a zone exclusive conjuration and can be deployed by a battle forge. Additionally, Galvitar, Forceblade is really useful for most forcemaster builds. It's often how she does most of her damage, though she has some other good options too. And I see you do have galvitar in your deck. You do realize it has cantrip, right? If it gets dissolved, just bring it out again. With the discount from force ring it costs 10 mana, which is only one more than the dancing scimitar and bear strength combined using the same discount for the scimitar.

Forcemaster doesn't kill everything on the board. She has much more efficient ways to deal with the enemy. Most creatures she can charm, mind control or put to sleep. You can put in a couple essence drains for psychic immune creatures, or just let them be if your mobility and defensive stuff is good enough. Forcefield is an amazing spell. You usually should include 2 or 3 of them, I notice you only have 1 here. You usually will want suppression orb and mordok's obelisk to deal with swarms. If you would rather go for a strategy where you kill all the enemy creatures, try a johktari beastmaster. If you're sticking with the forcemaster, you have force hammers to deal with the must kill conjurations like the Druid's treebonded tree.

Why do you have a second wall of thorns? As a forcemaster, you should only cast that if you are going to immediately push an enemy mage through it. That means quickcasting wall of thorns then immediately using your mage's action to push them through. Otherwise they'll just destroy the wall before you can use it.

Taking a closer look at your deck, it looks like you either want to tank or rush. You say you took out guardian angel and thoughtspores? That makes me think you want a slower forcemaster. If you want to use thoughtspores, keep in mind that they are squishy, like familiars usually are, but enchanting them with brace yourself really helps. If you don't have Forged in Fire, then you could try enchanting a thoughtspore with rhino hide and bull endurance, although then you probably don't want to run more than 1-2 thoughtspores, since you won't have enough time to protect any more that way because an aggressive opponent will be on you by round 3 at earliest. Your opponents probably won't give you that much time to setup. In general you usually won't want to summon more than 1-2 creatures with the forcemaster anyways, and if you're running a battle forge you probably won't want more than 1 creature, if any.

The forcemaster also works well with a buddy strategy. I've heard she really likes the Devouring Jelly.  The Invisible Stalker is also good for a more aggressive tank, to harass the enemy mage while you setup a bit more, although he's vulnerable to ethereal attacks, so you don't necessarily want to use him against the wizard. Another good option for a buddy is the steelclaw grizzly.

Ultimately I can only tell you what works from my own experience with the global metagame. I can't tell you what kind of viable forcemaster strategy you'd most enjoy. I've given the forcemaster a lot of thought. She's my favorite mage to play. If you're ever on OCTGN, I can show you some of the spellbooks I've built for her to give you some ideas and get your thoughts going.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 05:26:48 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

Puddnhead

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 11:57:24 AM »
Sailor has said a great deal of good and useful things here.  I would add:

1) I prefer [mwcard=MW1C26]Necropian Vampiress[/mwcard] or [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC01]Bridge Troll[/mwcard] (with [mwcard=MW1E36]Rhino Hide[/mwcard]) as my buddy...sometimes both!  The reason being they can heal themselves and you don't have to spend too many resources keeping them alive.

2) If you are planning on picking up Academy, there are a number of cheap and effective enchantments in the set that will greatly enhance your Thoughtspore mileage.

3) I'd be very interested to hear how the Force Bashes work for you.  They are theoretically very useful, but I find that they cost a whole lot for their effect.

I'm a big fan of the Forcemaster myself and hope to hear your tales of success!
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RomeoXero

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 04:20:40 PM »
Well Im the Druid hes talking about.  ;) In the tourney were in we've got an Adramalech warlock, a druid, 2 FMs, a air wizard and a warlord. its a tough choice because were playing matches to determine Placement in the brackets. theres gonna be a buy round so the one withthe most wins in the prelims gets the buy. I want that buy!!! lol.
Its been pretty tricky so far, because one doesnt need to play his tournament book in the prelims, but i went ahead and played the druid against each opponent once. It may have been a poor choice because now many of them are worried about it and im probably going to get teched against a ton in the tournament itself.

Personally i think he should run a buddy build, hes having a tough time nailing down his exact playstyle. i find thought spores to be almost completely useless. as they are squishy enough to destroy with one well placed attack spell. this particular tournament is a tricky meta and were in for a challenge as theres no real way to be ready for everything. its going to come down to how the books get piloted. im really excited about it. 
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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 01:42:08 AM »
Why do you have a second wall of thorns? As a forcemaster, you should only cast that if you are going to immediately push an enemy mage through it. That means quickcasting wall of thorns then immediately using your mage's action to push them through. Otherwise they'll just destroy the wall before you can use it.

Doesn't the FM Force Pull state that it is not powerful enough to push through walls with a passage attack?

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 10:01:09 AM »

Why do you have a second wall of thorns? As a forcemaster, you should only cast that if you are going to immediately push an enemy mage through it. That means quickcasting wall of thorns then immediately using your mage's action to push them through. Otherwise they'll just destroy the wall before you can use it.

Doesn't the FM Force Pull state that it is not powerful enough to push through walls with a passage attack?

I wasn't talking about Force Pull, I was referring to the spell Force Push.
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Re: FM solo build needs advice
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 10:05:32 AM »

I wasn't talking about Force Pull, I was referring to the spell Force Push.

My bad, I misunderstood ...