About Immunity

[ringkichard]

I can live with that, but it is just cooler with these strategies, if you know what i mean.

Yeah, a lot of small fun things die to help make a much larger fun thing. My forum sig is only half a joke.

[Moonglow]

when he is guarding he is standing in front of the mage protecting it. so to get to the mage adramalech has to get through the aura. If he is not guarding he is not constantly "in front" of the mage. The aura is always effecting as the imp himself is always immun. But only on guard the mage gets "in the influence range" of the aura

I'd rather introduce the idea that an immune creature can't guard against attacks its immune to.  If the attack is essentially invisible to the creature with immunity, they're so immune they can't even be targeted, then how could they guard against the attack.  They've basically unaware of it as for them it can't happen. 

Some wording like 'guard tokens on immune creatures are considered removed during an attack of that type and returned once the attack is resolved'.

[exid]

when he is guarding he is standing in front of the mage protecting it. so to get to the mage adramalech has to get through the aura. If he is not guarding he is not constantly "in front" of the mage. The aura is always effecting as the imp himself is always immun. But only on guard the mage gets "in the influence range" of the aura

I'd rather introduce the idea that an immune creature can't guard against attacks its immune to.  If the attack is essentially invisible to the creature with immunity, they're so immune they can't even be targeted, then how could they guard against the attack.  They've basically unaware of it as for them it can't happen. 

Some wording like 'guard tokens on immune creatures are considered removed during an attack of that type and returned once the attack is resolved'.

it is not guarding: it keeps the creature from attacking (it keeps its guard marker)

[Moonglow]

I get that, I know how to play...that's the condunrum of this whole post - the attacker must attack the immune creature that's guarding (because it guarding) but can't target it because its immune. 

Its the idea that because its immune AND guarding that it prevents an attack to anything else in the zone that seems a poor thematic fit and a little OP.

My suggestion was to mediate this.  It didn't change the effect on the immune creature, its still immune and can't be targetted.  It does, however, allow other creatures/targets in the zone to be attacked.  This seems a better (to my mind) solution than having a level 1 creature negating a level 4 creature with regard the whole zone.

when he is guarding he is standing in front of the mage protecting it. so to get to the mage adramalech has to get through the aura. If he is not guarding he is not constantly "in front" of the mage. The aura is always effecting as the imp himself is always immun. But only on guard the mage gets "in the influence range" of the aura

I'd rather introduce the idea that an immune creature can't guard against attacks its immune to.  If the attack is essentially invisible to the creature with immunity, they're so immune they can't even be targeted, then how could they guard against the attack.  They've basically unaware of it as for them it can't happen. 

Some wording like 'guard tokens on immune creatures are considered removed during an attack of that type and returned once the attack is resolved'.

it is not guarding: it keeps the creature from attacking (it keeps its guard marker)

[sIKE]

This seems a better (to my mind) solution than having a level 1 creature negating a level 4 creature with regard the whole zone.

You can trap LoF and even the Ada Warlock behind a couple of Walls of Earth and if she doesn't have any non-Flame Attack Spells or Equipment with non-Flame Attacks she is hosed and so is the LoF. It been like this for a long time, and it is just a big pile of dirt and Level 1.

[Moonglow]

Yeah but that's just clever play and seems thematically sound. You'd also need to negate flying,  so it's possible but also foreseeable, and negotiable.

The analogy someone gave of the imp being burn proof no matter how many times you try and burn it doesn't work with the guard scenario as it's not just immune itself,  its effectively making everyone else in the zone immune (they can't be targeted either). Maybe this is the same as your wall of earth example, but it feels much more gamey than clever.  If someone dropped the wall of earth on my lord of fire after throwing a maim wings I'd be like sweet move. If they protected their whole zone against all my fire attacks by guarding with an imp I'd think it was dumb and annoying.   But perhaps that's just me.

This seems a better (to my mind) solution than having a level 1 creature negating a level 4 creature with regard the whole zone.

You can trap LoF and even the Ada Warlock behind a couple of Walls of Earth and if she doesn't have any non-Flame Attack Spells or Equipment with non-Flame Attacks she is hosed and so is the LoF. It been like this for a long time, and it is just a big pile of dirt and Level 1.

[sIKE]

one of my points was that the Wall is lvl 1 too.

[Moonglow]

I imagine you even picked it as an example because I referred to a level 1 creature negating a level 4 creature....

I think my reply covered this, but my point was that I don't see a problem with a low level spell negating an attack or move from a more powerful creature or spell, but it should be part of clever, well timed, or positioned play. 

You can't actually use a wall of earth to negate Adramelech on its own. You'd need to remove its flying. You'd also need to have it positioned in a way that you can cast two wall of earth at once in a manner that blocks it.  Not particularly easy. 

Blocking any fire creature from attacking anything in a zone just needs a fire creature to guard as a result of the mechanics of immunity. 

one of my points was that the Wall is lvl 1 too.

[sIKE]

I am not trying to be snarky, but I could say the same about this Guard, you can push him, teleport him, Surging Wave (with a roll push him), sounds very much like the same thing you are advising me here.

[Moonglow]

I did say above that I could see how the point is similar,  but the immune guard seems more like gaming the rules than a clever play.  My question isn't really about the ability of a low level spell to be powerful it's the mechanism it uses to do it.

I am not trying to be snarky, but I could say the same about this Guard, you can push him, teleport him, Surging Wave (with a roll push him), sounds very much like the same thing you are advising me here.

[Kelanen]

I have to say, I actively prefer it how it is...

[Boocheck]

Well, it seems that i am immune to this problem :-) i like it as it is. It did not break the game and smart play caan overcome this :-)

[DaveW]

Well, it seems that i am immune to this problem :-) i like it as it is. It did not break the game and smart play caan overcome this :-)

I don't even understand how it is currently... so I can't like it or not at this point.

[Moonglow]

1) creatures immune to an attack can't be targetted by attacks of that type
2) guarding creatures in a zone must be attacked before any other creature
3) if you can't target the guard, you are not allowed to attack any other creature in the zone

Well, it seems that i am immune to this problem :-) i like it as it is. It did not break the game and smart play caan overcome this :-)

I don't even understand how it is currently... so I can't like it or not at this point.

[jhaelen]

1) creatures immune to an attack can't be targetted by attacks of that type
2) guarding creatures in a zone must be attacked before any other creature
3) if you can't target the guard, you are not allowed to attack any other creature in the zone

I suppose I shouldn't pick attacks the creature's immune against, then.

I didn't follow the discussion, but why don't we simply change the rule, that targeting a creature is allowed, but the attack simply fizzles, doing nothing at all?