How good is quick cast as a creature trait?

[fas723]

As of today the only ceature that can be qc is the Tartaree. In general a quite weak creature and not a very common play what I have seen. And then we have the Beastmaster ability to qc level 1 creatures that is one of the most powerful abilities of all mages. So how valuable is the qc trait for a creature?

What if you had the chance to change any creature into having the qc trait, and pay for it by removing another trait it currently had. Is there any such deal you wouldn't make? Could you name one creature that you would keep as is in favour of not having the qc trait (with the expenses of one other trait)?

Example: Would the Hydra be considered more or less powerful if it didn't had trippel strike and was able to be qc instead?

[echephron]

seems odd to trade traits. i would go with "how much mana extra would you spend to make this a quickcast"

[exid]

if you spend more mana, the level will increase.
trading traits shows the value better.

qc is realy valuable for little-medium creature, for big ones the mana cost allready limits your cast speed.
for the hydra, I think I woudn't cast a creature for 16 and without any powerfull attack.

[fas723]

The whole idea whith this topic is to see if we could use our imagination and think of an better trait. 
Odd or not, see if you could name a creature where you would keep the full action to cast in favour keeping all its trait.

Exid, that means the Beastmaster ability is even more powerfull. But I'm not sure I agree though. 
A qc Thunderift falcon without flying would I consider being worse then as is in many cases.
However a I would gladly trade any trait to make the Knigh of Westlock qc (like trade it with its defence)

The best example I can think of myself is the Infernian Scourger. I think I would rearly trade counterstike for qc in this case.

seems odd to trade traits. i would go with "how much mana extra would you spend to make this a quickcast"

I guess that what this discussion leads into. My issue with that is if we determine the qc trait is worth more than 3 mana, Tartaree would have a negative cost without it, meaning we have a circle reference...

[Sailor Vulcan]

I think spellbook point cost is more indicative of how powerful a card is than mana cost. They seem to work in tandem though. I actually invented an alternate variant called mental mage wars, in which, at the end of the planning phase, you can transform your planned spells into other spells that share their spellbook costs. The format has octgn support, so you're free to try it whenever you want.

Also, I think Tataree is a quick action BECAUSE it's level 1 and only 3 mana, rather than being 3 mana because it's a quick action.

[exid]

another way to ask would be: what about an qc incantation that would say: "put a creature in play, paying its casting cost"?
what level?
what cost?
what limitations (school, mage limit, creature's level limit, epic,...)

[Coshade]

Maybe there could be an enchantment that allows full actions to be quick cast actions. It could have a hefty upkeep to pay for the advantage and only allow one full cast as quick (like the beast master quick summon) per round.

[sIKE]

Thematically, I always took full casts as spells that take alot of concentration and time to cast. How would this enchantment work? I could see a one off with a large amount of mana (6-8) to reveal, this would be indicative of throwing mana at the problem to solve the time/concentration constraint. But once again it would really be 1 QC for the Enchantment and 1 QC to cast the Full Cast Spell, so you are not saving much from an action efficiency, however it does make the Mage a bit more mobile as he could move once and then reveal the Enchantment and the QC the Full Spell.

This would be in the meta magic/mana area of expertise so more than likely in the Arcane School and yet another yaay! for the Wizard.

[exid]

with an incantation (that alows you to put a creature in the game) you have only 1 action used and the 1qc limitation.
it could cost 2X (where X is the cost of the creature)... too expensive. it could better cost X+6 (or 2X but the creature could appear away from the mage!).

the "story" could be a link with life (only living creatures, then), and the spell be nature or holy. or a friend in the armie's direction (only soldiers, then), and the spell be war. or...

[Coshade]

Maybe make it Mind magic? To go off the deep end you could create a new school that is time magic.

[ringkichard]

The biggest advantage quick summoning gives is the ability to also move. You can think of that as the cost of a spawnpoint for a turn, or a forcepush that only can affect the caster.

[exid]

The biggest advantage quick summoning gives is the ability to also move. You can think of that as the cost of a spawnpoint for a turn, or a forcepush that only can affect the caster.

+ summoning 2 creatures in a turn
+ summoning during the qc phase

[ringkichard]

+ summoning 2 creatures in a turn
+ summoning during the qc phase

Yes, those are advantages too. But 2 creatures a turn is limited by the available manna, so it's really only useful on level 1 creatures.

Summoning during the final quickcast phase is neat when you can do it. But to do it, you're stuck casting the other spell during your creature activation. Which is probably fine if it's Hurl Boulder, but not so great if it's Teleport.

[exid]

+ summoning 2 creatures in a turn
+ summoning during the qc phase

Yes, those are advantages too. But 2 creatures a turn is limited by the available manna, so it's really only useful on level 1 creatures.

Summoning during the final quickcast phase is neat when you can do it. But to do it, you're stuck casting the other spell during your creature activation. Which is probably fine if it's Hurl Boulder, but not so great if it's Teleport.

I agree, these are no huge advantages... but moove+cast isn't either.
what realy makes the summoning more "nervous" is rouse the beast!

[ringkichard]

Move is huge. Proper movement halves the damage a mage takes, for example. Movement is the reason Teleport is the strongest card in the game.