Why must spawnpoints always have channeling?

[fas723]

One thing I have been thinking about is why AW always add channeling to the spawnpoints? Is this a must?
I would really like to see a general spawnpoints that could be used by any mage and cast any creature that had a reduced casting cost due to no channeling.

Let's say an average spawnpoints today is about 10-12 mana. A flower, Harmonize or amulet is 5-6.
What about this card then:
- Conjuration, spawnpoints.
- Full action, 5 mana.
- Can cast any creature in deployment.
- 6 health, 2 armor.
- Trippel novice (3 sp for everyone)

Would you play this card?

[iNano78]

One thing I have been thinking about is why AW always add channeling to the spawnpoints? Is this a must?
I would really like to see a general spawnpoints that could be used by any mage and cast any creature that had a reduced casting cost due to no channeling.

Let's say an average spawnpoints today is about 10-12 mana. A flower, Harmonize or amulet is 5-6.
What about this card then:
- Conjuration, spawnpoints.
- Full action, 5 mana.
- Can cast any creature in deployment.
- 6 health, 2 armor.
- Trippel novice (3 sp for everyone)

Would you play this card?

It would certainly make all the mages a lot more generic - e.g. all would be pretty good at summoning creatures - except the Forcemaster, who still pays triple sbp costs for non-Mind creatures and doesn't already have a creature spawn point (counting [mwcard=DNJ12]Vine Tree[/mwcard] for the Druid, since she has several creatures that qualify).

For the record, [mwcard=FWC04]Goblin Builder[/mwcard] is an example of a cheap Familiar (not a Spawnpoint) that doesn't have any channeling.  He also has restrictions regarding what he can cast and at what range, and it costs him a full action to do so.

[ACG]

One thing I have been thinking about is why AW always add channeling to the spawnpoints? Is this a must?
I would really like to see a general spawnpoints that could be used by any mage and cast any creature that had a reduced casting cost due to no channeling.

Let's say an average spawnpoints today is about 10-12 mana. A flower, Harmonize or amulet is 5-6.
What about this card then:
- Conjuration, spawnpoints.
- Full action, 5 mana.
- Can cast any creature in deployment.
- 6 health, 2 armor.
- Trippel novice (3 sp for everyone)

Would you play this card?

There is no rule that spawnpoints must have channeling. My assumption is that this is done to help new players, who do not yet understand the importance of balancing actions with mana. With extra channeling, a spawnpoint gives you the mana you need to make use of it.

Your proposed 5 mana universal spawnpoint would make every creature spawnpoint to date obsolete.

[JasonBourneZombie]

I already run a double spawn point book as a necromancer, so you'd think I'd like the idea. Honestly, I don't really.

This would make for a conjuration every creature swarm build MUST have, and I've never appreciated that mindset in a game. In order to make it fit thematically, it would have to be quite generic. Plants, ghosts, corpses, soldiers, and demons have very different origins and locales. If someone could summon anything from the proposed conjuration, it wouldn't quite have the Mage Wars feel to it.

In the end, AW gave us a dedicated creature summon action per turn baked in with a mana crystal which made action and zone exclusive economy better. Maybe not a best fit for all, but still quite handy.

[fas723]

Hummm...I think I expressed myself poorly and didn't explain my chain of thoughts enough...

As I view it, spwanpoints are mostly for low level swarms. If you plan to summon biggies you just cast them, and for mid level creatures the investment is too heaviy with the current spawnpoints. That I was looking for was a spawnpoint made for level 2-3 biulds.

Example: Let's say the upcomming Syren would have a spawnpoint that had a low casting cost, without channeling, and could only cast level 2-3 water creatures. That would make it possible to accually afford mid level creatures and still make some action bennefit from the spwanpoint.

My misstake was that I did loop this though in my head one more turn and made it generic (because I liked the idea) before I posted it here. 

Don't mind the stat I wrote in the first post. They were just to put some fuel to the discussion. It wasn't ment to be stats set in stone, rather a starting point of the discussion.

Regarding theem I agree. Theem must stay.

[sdougla2]

Spawnpoints are generally best used with level 2-3 creatures anyway... Level 1 creatures are too fragile as a general rule. There are a few cases where it works fine to focus a bit on pumping out level 1 creatures with your spawnpoint, but using a spawnpoint to cast a bunch of level 1 creatures is not usually a good strategy.

[Puddnhead]

My Forcemaster would love a spawnpoint.  I can get as many mobile wands (read: thoughtspores) out as I want without using my own actions!  As such, I think there shouldn't be a spawnpoint that can spawn mind creatures.

[Borg]

My Forcemaster would love a spawnpoint.  I can get as many mobile wands (read: thoughtspores) out as I want without using my own actions!  As such, I think there shouldn't be a spawnpoint that can spawn mind creatures.

Yes, as a Forcemaster player myself I could see this spiralling out of control rather quickly.
4 flying Elemental/Mage Wands anybody ?
Would be a no-brainer inclusion in any FM book.

[JasonBourneZombie]

I think the investment in a current style spawn point is still pretty worth it. Take for example a 5 mana cost no channeling spawn point. I know you said not to accept the suggested stats as set in stone, but they provide a worst case scenario for my argument, since I believe 5 mana and one full action is payed back rather quickly in terms of creature summoning.

A fair number of channeling spawn points run close to 14 mana, but have additional means of generating mana. This brings their effective channeling above 1 mana a turn for most circumstances. A spawn point without additional mana conditions runs closer to 10 mana casting cost. This means that the proposed conjuration would leave you short 5 mana relative to a channeling spawn point without mana conditions, and 9 mana compared to one with conditional extra mana sources.

5 turns after casting, the channeling spawn point has payed for itself, and the mana conditional spawn point, in many cases, will have done so as well. Obviously, you have less mana leading up to this point, and more mana afterwards, but very few games seem to last fewer than 6 turns, at least for my group.

[Sailor Vulcan]

It would be cool to have a mage that specialized in summoning a TON of really really weak creatures to swarm the enemy. Maybe that insect mage that's been hinted at as a future possibility. Then if you gave the mage an innate channeling of 11 and a bunch of weak limited use spawnpoints with no channeling...that way, the ease of summoning so many creatures and spawnpoints is offset by how easy they are to destroy.

[andy]

Imagine:

Mage: Antman
Special Ability: Insect Affinity - Whenever a friendly insect creature in Antman's zone takes a move action, Antman may move along with it.  Whenever Antman makes a melee attack, each friendly insect creature in Antman's zone makes its own attack as an extra attack against the same target as part of the same attack action.  The additional attacks occur during the additional strikes phase in any order you choose.  Even creatures who have already used their action this round take part.

Creature: Worker Ant
Level: 1
Cost: 1
Armor: -
Life: 2
Trait: Pest, Swarm ("You may put up to 10 copies of this card in your spellbook.")
Quick Attack: 1 die, critical damage

Creature: Soldier Ant
Level: 1
Cost: 3
Armor: -
Life: 3
Trait: Pest, Swarm
Quick Attack: 2 die, critical damage

Creature: Flying Ant
Level: 2
Cost: 4
Armor: -
Life: 3
Trait: Pest
Quick Attack: 2 die, critical damage

Creature: Fire Ant
Level: 2
Cost: 4
Armor: -
Life: 3
Trait: Pest
Quick Attack: 2 die, critical damage, 8+ burn

Conjuration: Ant-hill
Cost: 8
Trait: Spawnpoint
Text: During deployment, Ant-hill may cast up to two level 1 insect creatures, or up to one level 2 insect creature.

Enchantment: Giant Man
Cost: 2 + 6
Trait: Antman only
Text: Once each round, Antman may lose Insect Affinity until the end of the round to gain Melee +4.  Use a ready marker to keep track of this effect.

[jhaelen]

It would be cool to have a mage that specialized in summoning a TON of really really weak creatures to swarm the enemy.

Meh. For my taste the swarms current mages can summon are already plenty big. For one thing you'd run out of activation tokens It also means a single turn takes forever with little to no effect.

[Wildhorn]

If you compare Lair (which cost 15 mana) to your 5 mana no channeling spawnpoint idea, yours is way too powerful. They do the samething, but yours give 5 turns worth of channeling right away on the first summon.

[fas723]

If you compare Lair (which cost 15 mana) to your 5 mana no channeling spawnpoint idea, yours is way too powerful. They do the samething, but yours give 5 turns worth of channeling right away on the first summon.

Did you read through the thread? If not please do.
What stats and traits would you say is reasonable for a none channeling spawnpoints in your view? If we have a good discussion about it maybe we will see one in the future. 

[ACG]

What stats and traits would you say is reasonable for a none channeling spawnpoints in your view? If we have a good discussion about it maybe we will see one in the future. 

Well, I've created a few spawnpoints with no channeling:

Bog Mummy

Justified by the sheer utility of a creature spawnpoint (since it is mobile, and can cast a spell AND do something else during the same round).

Cursed
Haunted

Both justified by the usefulness of being able to attach a spawnpoint to the enemy mage. Not only do they have no channeling, they cost 1 mana upkeep each round.

Psychic Network

Justified because the spawnpoint is not the main benefit, it just compensates for the need to cast multiples.