Dominate the Arena: Skeelax

[Laddinfance]

We took a day off for Memorial Day, and now we're back with a new preview. You can find it >>HERE<<. Hope you enjoy all the awesome that is Skeelax, Taunting Imp!

[Wildhorn]

Which one happens first? The Regenerate or the Burn roll? Decided by Initiative?

[Schwenkgott]

I'd say:
The Imp belongs to a Player, while the burn marker belongs to no one. So the Owner of the Imp can always decide that the Regeneration happens first before the burn damage is rolled.

[Kharhaz]

I'd say:
The Imp belongs to a Player, while the burn marker belongs to no one. So the Owner of the Imp can always decide that the Regeneration happens first before the burn damage is rolled.

Negative

From the rules pg ~7:

"You always choose the order in which events that affect your creatures and objects occur during this phase. In the "rare" case that a timing issue occurs, the player with the initiative decides the order."


If player A has initiative and decides to apply the burn effect before the regeneration happens, and the burn is removed, Skeelax would not gain regeneration 2.

[Schwenkgott]

Not the best rule at all. Could use an update. Events in Upkeep should all happen at the same time. Much easier for players.

[iNano78]

It's interesting that, unlike [mwcard=MW1C33]Sosruko, Ferret Companion[/mwcard], Skeelax isn't a Pest.  While [mwcard=FWC15]Thorg, Chief Bodyguard[/mwcard] is also a "non-pest," Thorg's conditions for placing a Taunt marker are a bit more restrictive (e.g. full action; has to Guard, and thus can't attack normally and hand out a Taunt).  Skeelax could move and Guard (or double-move and Guard if you enchant him with [mwcard=MW1E05]Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]), then counterattack with a chance to Taunt.  And he has enough health + defense to stick around for a while (whereas Sosruko tends to die the first time his defense fails or facing an unavoidable attack).

[Phoenix]

I'd say:
The Imp belongs to a Player, while the burn marker belongs to no one. So the Owner of the Imp can always decide that the Regeneration happens first before the burn damage is rolled.

Negative

From the rules pg ~7:

"You always choose the order in which events that affect your creatures and objects occur during this phase. In the "rare" case that a timing issue occurs, the player with the initiative decides the order."


If player A has initiative and decides to apply the burn effect before the regeneration happens, and the burn is removed, Skeelax would not gain regeneration 2.

This is difficult, because if the burn token was on Skeelax then the regen could occur first. If the burn token is on your opponents creature then the result is ambiguous. I believe that Skeelax would still get the regen and the burn token would also be in effect.

[sIKE]

I would rule that if there is a creature with a Burn maker in the same zone as he at the beginning of the Upkeep phase that Skeelax would gain the Regenerate trait. He would then keep that trait until the next Upkeep phase.

[Borg]

Not the best rule at all. Could use an update. Events in Upkeep should all happen at the same time. Much easier for players.

I cannot agree about "Events in Upkeep should all happen at the same time" as that would eliminate the Initiative marker's mechanic which the game is built upon.

I would rule that if there is a creature with a Burn maker in the same zone as he at the beginning of the Upkeep phase that Skeelax would gain the Regenerate trait. He would then keep that trait until the next Upkeep phase.

No offense sIKE, but that would needlessly complicate matters imo.

Every part of the game of Mage Wars revolves entirely around the INITIATIVE marker.
Initiative decides who goes first and who goes second in every phase of the game.
The same applies to the upkeep phase.
So, I don't see what's "wrong" about Skeelax
The person with Initiative resolves his upkeep effects first ( in the order he wishes them to be executed ) followed by the other player.

If the Skeelax player has initiative he can activate the regenerate ability before there's a Burn roll. If he doesn't have initiative, it's possible that his Regenerate ability does not trigger if the burn counter has disappeared before he gets a chance to trigger his Regen ability. Simple as that.

[sIKE]

Everything evolves around the Initiative if there is a tie. The card says:

During the Upkeep Phase, while Skeelax is in the same zone as an object with a Burn condition, he gains the Regenerate 2 trait.

If an object started the Upkeep Phase with a Burn condition on it and Skeelax was in the same zone, would that meet this cards requirement to gain the trait? Regardless of who had the Initiative and when and what effect was processed? I my minds eyes, at the start of the Upkeep phase the answer is yes and the trait is applied.

[rodriguekhalil]

It's interesting that, unlike [mwcard=MW1C33]Sosruko, Ferret Companion[/mwcard], Skeelax isn't a Pest.  While [mwcard=FWC15]Thorg, Chief Bodyguard[/mwcard] is also a "non-pest," Thorg's conditions for placing a Taunt marker are a bit more restrictive (e.g. full action; has to Guard, and thus can't attack normally and hand out a Taunt).  Skeelax could move and Guard (or double-move and Guard if you enchant him with [mwcard=MW1E05]Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]), then counterattack with a chance to Taunt.  And he has enough health + defense to stick around for a while (whereas Sosruko tends to die the first time his defense fails or facing an unavoidable attack).

I agree and, as such, it makes sens that the regenerate 2 trait might not trigger if the player doesn't have initiative. But now, [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE01]Adramelech's Touch[/mwcard] just became all the more useful!

[Schwenkgott]

The initiative mechanic is first of all important for the quickcast and action phase. Using the mechanic in other phases for events is absolutely not nessessary and complicates things more than it helps.

[Intangible0]

The initiative mechanic is first of all important for the quickcast and action phase. Using the mechanic in other phases for events is absolutely not nessessary and complicates things more than it helps.

I believe that you and Sike are correct. I had this happen in a match once where there was an argument about when certain upkeep traits came into effect. Here was the decision (by some people over the net):

Upkeep effects happen at the same time, both you and your opponent apply all upkeep traits at once, however if there are more than one upkeep conditions that must be met for a player (for instance a burn token and regenerate) then the player getting affected by those traits decides the order.

So in this case, both the burn and the regenerate happen at the same time.

[Borg]

Everything evolves around the Initiative if there is a tie. The card says:

During the Upkeep Phase, while Skeelax is in the same zone as an object with a Burn condition, he gains the Regenerate 2 trait.

If an object started the Upkeep Phase with a Burn condition on it and Skeelax was in the same zone, would that meet this cards requirement to gain the trait? Regardless of who had the Initiative and when and what effect was processed? I my minds eyes, at the start of the Upkeep phase the answer is yes and the trait is applied.

The reason we're having this discussion is simply a difference in interpretation of how this should work imo.

You interpret it this way : as soon as the upkeep phase starts and the burn counter condition is met Skeelax gains and cannot lose the regen ability for the duration of the upkeep phase even if that burn counter is gone !
while I ( and apparently also the card designer ) see Skeelax gain the regen trait only as long as the burn condition is there but he loses the trait as soon as the burn condition is not met, which seems to make most sense imo, so it's more like an on/off trait depending on a condition while you're proposing it to be "on" even if the condition is no longer met.

[Borg]

The initiative mechanic is first of all important for the quickcast and action phase.

I agree there.

Using the mechanic in other phases for events is absolutely not nessessary and complicates things more than it helps.

That's the part where I don't agree. I think it benefits the game that there is a clear rule that says who has to go first in every phase. For one, it's good game design imo to have a consequent ruling during all phases and I'm sure if the rule weren't there, eventually timing discussions would come up anyway