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Author Topic: Akios Hammer  (Read 7639 times)

MW United

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Akios Hammer
« on: May 11, 2015, 05:17:15 PM »
Hello guys

I was thinking about all the cards in the game that don't make it to the arena that often.

Akio's Hammer....... Hmm

Well what if the war machine could be manned by say a goblin builder or the dwarf engineer as two examples??

For a full action the chosen creature could move the war machine one zone in any direction but not through a wall.

This would surely give this card more play time, and the goblin builder would become a more viable option too.

sIKE

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 06:26:33 PM »
Now this is an interesting idea....
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V10lentray

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 02:45:17 PM »
The card is still useless since it dosen't have indirect. Place a blocked LOS wall infront of it, and it can not fire.
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iNano78

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 02:53:10 PM »
The card is still useless since it dosen't have indirect. Place a blocked LOS wall infront of it, and it can not fire.

Seems like a pretty straightforward errata for both Akiro's Hammer and Ballista (promo).
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ringkichard

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 03:01:36 PM »
Wait, you want to make Ballista *more* powerful?
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

sIKE

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 03:07:13 PM »
Wait, you want to make Ballista *more* powerful?
Its not that powerful.....
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iNano78

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 03:19:02 PM »
Wait, you want to make Ballista *more* powerful?

Well, it currently has the same "unplayable" issue as Akiro's Hammer for the same reason (put a LoS-blocking wall in front of it and it's useless, although in this case the wall has to be immediately adjacent to it or Ballista could target the wall).  It can only attack every other round.  It can't defend itself (e.g. needs a guard because can't attack anything at range 1).  And unlike Akiro's Hammer's zone attack, Ballista's single-target attack isn't unavoidable so can be dodged by a defense or can trigger Reverse Attack.

I think some of the Druid's conjurations are scarier than Ballista, especially since they can pop up anywhere there's a Vine token and immediately perform an attack, often with special effect from a Mist token.
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V10lentray

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 03:33:03 PM »
But balista could at least attack the wall you place in front of it, the hammer cannot.
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iNano78

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 03:38:24 PM »
But balista could at least attack the wall you place in front of it, the hammer cannot.

Don't you have to have LoS and proper range to a zone that the wall borders?  If you put an LoS-blocking wall bordering the zone containing the Ballista, it wouldn't be able to target the wall because LoS to the target zone at proper range (1 zone away) would be blocked.  The only zone that the wall borders that is in LoS is at range 0.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 03:49:55 PM »
But balista could at least attack the wall you place in front of it, the hammer cannot.

Don't you have to have LoS and proper range to a zone that the wall borders?  If you put an LoS-blocking wall bordering the zone containing the Ballista, it wouldn't be able to target the wall because LoS to the target zone at proper range (1 zone away) would be blocked.  The only zone that the wall borders that is in LoS is at range 0.

From the rules pg 18

Attacking Walls
A creature in either of the zones bordering a wall may make
a melee attack against that wall. Ranged attacks may target
a wall if either of the adjacent zones is in range, the wall is
in LoS
. Walls do not occupy a zone, and are not affected by
Zone Attacks or spells that target a zone.

A ballista can attack the wall because the adjacent zone is in range and it has LoS to the wall.

Akiro's Hammer has the "corporeal conjurations" and the 2-3 range to deal with. A fog bank / wall of fire is untouchable by the Hammer

Furthermore since the hammer's zone attack targets a zone any LoS blocking wall can prevent that attack.

Ballista = Awesome
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 03:53:30 PM by Kharhaz »

V10lentray

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 03:58:41 PM »
Range of Zero would be the zone in which the balista is. A wall touching that zone would be within range of 1 because it is also on an adjacent zone which would be one zone away.

In order for a creature to be able to perform a ranged attack against a wall, it must (1) have LoS to the wall (trace LoS to the center of the border where the wall resides), and (2) be in range of at least one of the zones the wall borders. Also see “Extendable” in the Codex section.

I take this to say that a wall bordering a zone is 1 zone away.
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V10lentray

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 03:59:50 PM »
I was looking that up, while you posted your answer, so I had to post my answer as well, to prove I knew what I was talking about.
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iNano78

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 04:03:45 PM »
But balista could at least attack the wall you place in front of it, the hammer cannot.

Don't you have to have LoS and proper range to a zone that the wall borders?  If you put an LoS-blocking wall bordering the zone containing the Ballista, it wouldn't be able to target the wall because LoS to the target zone at proper range (1 zone away) would be blocked.  The only zone that the wall borders that is in LoS is at range 0.

From the rules pg 18

Attacking Walls
A creature in either of the zones bordering a wall may make
a melee attack against that wall. Ranged attacks may target
a wall if either of the adjacent zones is in range, the wall is
in LoS
. Walls do not occupy a zone, and are not affected by
Zone Attacks or spells that target a zone.

A ballista can attack the wall because the adjacent zone is in range and it has LoS to the wall.

Akiro's Hammer has the "corporeal conjurations" and the 2-3 range to deal with. A fog bank / wall of fire is untouchable by the Hammer

Furthermore since the hammer's zone attack targets a zone any LoS blocking wall can prevent that attack.

Ballista = Awesome

I interpret that text the opposite way (assuming there should be "and" where the comma is).  The wall is in LoS but the adjacent zone (at range 1) is not, so I can't attack the wall.  The other zone adjacent to the wall (e.g. the zone containing the Ballista) is in LoS but not at a legal range for the attack.  At least, that's how we've been dealing with these types of effects.

For example (that has come up), [mwcard=DNC13]Skeletal Archer[/mwcard] wants to attack a LoS-blocking wall that borders its zone.  It has to use a 2-dice melee attack because it can't see a zone that the wall borders that is at legal range for its 4-dice ranged attack.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, the text you quoted has a grammatical error.  (Is that a direct quote from the current rules?)

*edit* I was posting this while other answers were coming in.  Well whaddya know?! We've been doin' it wrong!  Suddenly ranged attacks with min-range of 1 look SO much better.

OK, fine, Ballista doesn't need the Indirect trait, but Akiro's Hammer could certainly use it.

*edit again* And Akiro's Hammer isn't as bad as I thought it was, because the only corporeal LoS-blocking walls it can't attack are the ones that border its zone (and ones that are beyond 3 zones away, but it doesn't care about those ones).  I thought you could put a wall on the border between 1 and 2 zones from AH and block LoS to your conjuration with impunity, but apparently it can target that one despite not having LoS to a zone that's in range.  That's very unintuitive based on rules for range (e.g. when casting walls) and even tricky to deduce from the rule book (but clearer in the FAQ).  Now, as V10 pointed out, incorporeal walls are the silver bullet against Akiro's Hammer.

I guess that's the only instance where a non-flying non-reach creature can choose between either a melee attack or a ranged attack with minimum range of 1 against the same target.
(I know you can always target a flying creature in your zone with a ranged attack, even if it's inside the minimum range of the ranged attack - but then you wouldn't be able to target it with melee unless you were also flying)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 04:22:15 PM by iNano78 »
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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 04:37:10 PM »
Just a point on the wall placement problem.

Sure a wall would block line of site but the war machine would be able to be moved away from the wall on future turns.

The wall could be attacked as an alternative

DaveW

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Re: Akios Hammer
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 05:18:17 PM »
I vaguely remember suggesting using creatures (someone else suggested Goblin Grunts) as crew for siege engines. I didn't consider giving the thing the ability to move (which I think is great, if that's all it can do), but there was a lot of positive feedback on having the creature add a load token. I don't know where that thread is though... it's been a while.
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