The Johktari RUSHmaster

[sIKE]

Hi, my son plays a Johktari that starts shooting with a bow with 5 dice from turn 2. I find that even more annoying since all I do to prevent it (intercept, walls, pushes) cost me mana while his 5 dice attacks are "free".

Move so that you are three or more zones away......I know he can push or teleport himself, but now, he is spending mana.

[sdougla2]

Or move into the same zone as the Beastmaster. Bows can only attack another creature in the same zone if at least one of the attacker and/or the target have flying. That doesn't work as well against a Lair based Johktari Beastmaster, but you can still limit their ability to action efficiently get off free ranged attacks against you. If they have to play a Teleport to get the shot off, you're forcing them to spend resources, and they'll eventually run out of Teleports.

[Coshade]

I think there are some really cool responses here. I really like Sdougla's idea of a T1 Battle Forge, T2 Chest plate (Deployment) and Brace Yourself (First Quickcast). Most of my decks already have this as a viable opening.

I also agree that getting a creature that has Intercept T2 would be great after you cast a brace yourself. I wonder if Intangible has a contingency for that.

I think the Rushmaster is a good test you can use to see if your spellbook can handle a simple to spot plan that executes itself quickly.

[Coshade]

BTW we have been a little busy with the holidays but hope to record a new video soon!

[TeenageWargamer]

Can I ask what you do when your opponent slaps down two Ballista on turn one?  I thought aggro builds were really useful right up until I saw this opening move, two 5 dice piercing +3 attacks on turn two are no fun at all.

[sdougla2]

Ballista has not been officially released, so openings involving it are not considered part of standard play. Many players have also expressed concern about Ballista being overpowered.

[wtcannonjr]

Ballista has not been officially released, so openings involving it are not considered part of standard play. Many players have also expressed concern about Ballista being overpowered.

This is probably how generals felt when the machine gun began to dominate battlefields in the early 20th century. New technologies like the tank were needed to counter it so that attackers could out maneuver machine gun placements.

Defensive weapons have traditionally been limited by their fixed locations making maneuver/aggressiveness the more dominate counter strategy. Sometimes known as "hit 'em where they ain't".

[Intangible0]

Wow! I walked away from this thread for a couple of weeks thinking it was near the end of its discussion but it lingers on still.

First I just want to say thanks to Coshade, Sike, and Sdougla2 for responding to everyone's questions when I didn't. Even more so, thanks for showing doubt in the build. That kept people wondering what other options were out there.

As far as answering your questions on contingencies...

• Brace Yourself: There is no real counter to this other than choose to slog through the armor or simply don't attack until next round.
• Heavy armor early on: There are three acid balls in the deck, but in addition the lightning spells are there to hopefully stun. This would give the Rushmaster a little time to think on how to deal with the armor.
• Intercept: Surging wave/knockdown/teleport/Jetstream/sleep. All of these take an action to perform, true, but if your opponent has already taken so much damage then action economy isn't your biggest worry in the world.
• Counter rushing: Arc Lightning and Surging Wave. Even Hurl Boulder and Forcehammer to an extent. These can daze, stun or slam. I feel that in counter rush (at least solo rush) your biggest ally will be those afflictions. There are also a few defensive spells in here to help out.
• WoT: I know a lot of people are very confident in this strategy. Against something as fast as the Rushmaster I'm not sure how that strategy will turn out. Light armor and eagleclaw boots certainly helps defeat it. It's not that I disagree with the counterplay, I just think there are a few more weakness to WoT Push that make it a bit less aggressive.

Lastly, just wanted to say that the end of this thread is exactly what I was hoping to see. People are talking about different rush strategies (I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced) and how to counter them. The Rushmaster is mortal but you're only likely to beat it if you know it's coming (from its opening) and if you have some proper back up plans. I feel that this discussion has given a little more light to Rush decks and hopefully we'll see some solid counter plays in the future.

[V10lentray]

(I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced)

1 Ballista is not imbalanced. 2 ballistas are imbalanced. That is where the problem lies.

[Moonglow]

2  ballista? ballisti?  hmmm seems this has been asked before...apparently its ballistae ....

(I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced)

1 Ballista is not imbalanced. 2 ballistas are imbalanced. That is where the problem lies.

[Puddnhead]

I've always been an economy player.  No matter what game, putting an engine together that churns itself to victory is something I really like.  Therefore decks like this Rushmaster scare the bejeebers out of me.

I do not dispute the Brace Yourself or Intercept "answers" to the archetype.  My question is, if you manage to weather the initial onslaught and stabilize with <20 damage, do you attempt to recover your engine or do you play a sub-optimal survival game and hope you win the damage race?

My specific situation is with a dual spawnpoint Anvil Throne Warlord.  My turn 1 is currently Battleforge, Meditation amulet.  Turn 2 would involve the barracks unless I'm dealing with rush at which point my whole plan is thrown off.  I'd probably throw down a panzerguard with defend and have the forge equip some gloves (runed of course).  What I'd really like to do is get my barracks up eventually, but at this point I don't think that would be a wise move.

Suggestions?

[sdougla2]

If you have to adjust your opening due to your opponent applying massive pressure, you shouldn't play all of that economy. Depending on how much pressure they are applying, you may only get away with the first round of economy before switching into defense, which is what I would probably do against the Rushmaster. You can play a second turn Barracks and a Brace Yourself turn 2, but that would work better if you opened with a card other than Meditation Amulet. I don't think it's that efficient to play Meditation Amulet turn 1 when you can deploy it out of your Battle Forge later if your opponent isn't rushing.

In general, if your opponent is applying a lot of pressure to you, you shouldn't keep playing economy. You may be able to get away with one more round of economy with the use of Brace Yourself and/or Block though. You don't really want to play most economy late in the game because it will be too late for it to benefit you that much. If your opponent plays zero economy, and you are generating a few extra mana/round and maybe an extra action/round, you will eventually overwhelm your opponent with superior resources if you manage to survive that long. This is particularly true against the Rushmaster because of her lack of long term threats. Just playing a few creatures should give you the long term advantage against the Rushmaster. You don't need all of that economy to win the long game in this case, and you have more important concerns than getting up your whole engine when your opponent plans to throw a boulder at your head every turn.

[Coshade]

Hey Puddn,

I can totally understand where you are coming from. Going for longer economy plays is a blast, but one of the best ways to play that style is to figure out what kills you. Sdougla really spells it out saying that you want less economy.

Here is one way I beat the Rushmaster (actually tested) - I was playing a skelly Necro.
As a standard opening Turn 1 I double mana crystal. Originally it was because rush Wizards would destroy me, but it also works with this. During the action phase you cast one mana crystal then hold your quick cast. If you see signs of a rush (double enchantments here) then don't cast your second crystal.

Turn 2 you wall then extend in the corner, then cast a skeletal knight. The Rushmaster is going to try to break through the wall with a Hurl Boullder. If it works you get hit with a spell, if it doesn't the wall will probably get punched to death (Akiro's Favor helps a lot).

Turn 3 -This round is where your patience pays off. Prepare another wall and a brace yourself. Even if he took the wall down, there is no way he has enough move actions to get to your corner turn 2 (if he decided teleport then you're in good shape). You can then cast another wall during quick cast turn 3. I suggest the Brace Yourself because you need that armor for next round. If he breaks down the wall turn 3 then I suggest sending in your skeletal knight to start dealing out 5 dice. If he decides to use Eagleclaw boots, then that is his QC and it is a full action to climb over the wall. You can have easy punishment with your knight.

Turn 4 and on - This is where the decision making begins. The way you win is by [mwcard=MW1I08] Drain Life[/mwcard] and [mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01] Drain Soul[/mwcard]. I suggest running Brace Yourself as much as possible as the benefits for 2 mana is really nice. The whole time your skeletal Knight dishing 5 dice a turn is really good. If you can't afford a drain card then bring a Force Push or a teleport to put your knight in position. Also never guard, always go for the punch. The 3 dice could mean the game with few rounds.

There are many other ways to beat a rush deck. This is just one way for the Necro, there are tons of other ways. Anyway hope this helps!


[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Soul Reaper[/spellbookname]
[mage]Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j20]1 x  Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]2 x  Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]1 x  Armory[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x  Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]3 x  Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c32]2 x  Skeletal Sentry[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC14]1 x  Skeletal Knight[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC13]2 x  Skeletal Archer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC15]4 x  Skeletal Minion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC09]1 x  Plague Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC07]1 x  Mort[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c23]1 x  Malacoda[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC02]1 x  Deathfang[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c08]1 x  Darkfenne Bat[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]2 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e31]2 x  Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x  Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x  Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]2 x  Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ03]1 x  Deathshroud Staff[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ05]1 x  Libro Mortuos[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]1 x  Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q05]1 x  Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x  Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q04]1 x  Deflection Bracers[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x  Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x  Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i07]4 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI03]1 x  Reassemble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i08]2 x  Drain Life[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI05]1 x  Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]2 x  Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]4 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

[sIKE]

Why not test for a Jinx/Nullify at the end of his turn with Initiative then Dispel and Slow or Tanglevine him next.

[TeenageWargamer]

I like the idea of Drain Life/Drain Soul but might do it with a Warlock.  Walls of Fire could be pretty interesting for the Rushmaster to walk through...