Akiros Favor VS Temple of the Dawnbreaker

[Halewijn]

Even though it was never specified in the rules, I always play as if it's like the following:

1) declare
2) dodge
3) Assemble dice
4) Roll dice
5) re-roll dice
6) reveal enchantments edit: apply damage

Step 5 is not defined in the rules. But this is how I defined it intuitively without even thinking about it. Giving you the opportunity to reveal AF between 4&5 and rhino hide between 5&6.

[bigfatchef]

That is how we also play it. Feels clean.

Even though it was never specified in the rules, I always play as if it's like the following:

1) declare
2) dodge
3) Assemble dice
4) Roll dice
5) re-roll dice
6) reveal enchantments

Step 5 is not defined in the rules. But this is how I defined it intuitively without even thinking about it. Giving you the opportunity to reveal AF between 4&5 and rhino hide between 5&6.

[ringkichard]

here i would prefer if the official answer would treat the global problem (how far in the past an enchantment can have effect when it's revealed) and not only the A's favor problem. i prefere a unique global rull than 30 exceptions.

There is already an official answer to this question in the rulebook: time is never rewound. Temple doesn't "effect the past" either. A re-roll is never an undo, it's always a re-do.

[exid]

here i would prefer if the official answer would treat the global problem (how far in the past an enchantment can have effect when it's revealed) and not only the A's favor problem. i prefere a unique global rull than 30 exceptions.

There is already an official answer to this question in the rulebook: time is never rewound. Temple doesn't "effect the past" either. A re-roll is never an undo, it's always a re-do.

if you re-do, you have to un-do (or you will have 2 dice rolls!).

i meant: there are a lot of situations where the enchantement have to waite until the end of the step it wants to influence to be revealed. it would be better if all these enchantements would / all these enchantements would'nt influence the ended step. 

[ringkichard]

if you re-do, you have to un-do (or you will have 2 dice rolls!).

Maybe. It's possible that re-rolls count as additional Quicksand escape attempts, for example. It's also possible that it's similar to revealing Bear Strength Rhino Hide after the dice are rolled but before they're applied. Only instead of changing the applied armor value you change the applied dice.

Do you have to re-roll before the roll step is over, or before the roll is applied?

I would tend to favor "before applied" because not all rolls happen in a step, but that fact may cause other problems, too, so may have to change. I donno.

[Laddinfance]

You mean Rhino Hide?

[exid]

that's an interessant new question:
i agree that rhino hide can be revealed after the roll step: it doesn't affect it (but it must be revealed befor the damage step).
but i think bear strenght must be revealed befor the roll step: after it's to late to interfer with the rolling

[sIKE]

that's an interessant new question:
i agree that rhino hide can be revealed after the roll step: it doesn't affect it (but it must be revealed befor the damage step).
but i think bear strenght must be revealed befor the roll step: after it's to late to interfer with the rolling

I agree with both of these statements...

[exid]

that's an interessant new question:
i agree that rhino hide can be revealed after the roll step: it doesn't affect it (but it must be revealed befor the damage step).
but i think bear strenght must be revealed befor the roll step: after it's to late to interfer with the rolling

I agree with both of these statements...

if i understand well, for you A's favor can interfere with the rolling after the roll step, but bear strength cannot.
it means that A's favor would follow a different rull than bear strength. something like: a rull for "normal effects" and a rull for "counter&modifiing effects".
am i right?

[Halewijn]

that's an interessant new question:
i agree that rhino hide can be revealed after the roll step: it doesn't affect it (but it must be revealed befor the damage step).
but i think bear strenght must be revealed befor the roll step: after it's to late to interfer with the rolling

I agree with both of these statements...

if i understand well, for you A's favor can interfere with the rolling after the roll step, but bear strength cannot.
it means that A's favor would follow a different rull than bear strength. something like: a rull for "normal effects" and a rull for "counter&modifiing effects".
am i right?

This is also the way I see it.

In my "imaginary" view I posted before, assembling dice is step 3, showing the potential strength of the blow. Giving yourself more muscles with bear strength can give you more dice. Giving yourself the muscles after you roll it doesn't count.

1) declare
2) dodge (dodge/block/reverse attack, fumble ... during this step)
3) Assemble dice (bear strength, ... before this step)
4) Roll dice
5) re-roll dice (AF before this one)
6) apply damage (Rhino hide before this one)

Akiro is not really affecting your blow, but more or less protecting you for bad luck. Favoring you in battle.

[exid]

i understand now your point of view!

well... i think it's easier to have only one rull for all enchantments.
if there are two, it's necessary to be very clear separating the enchantments between them (the story about muscles and luck isn't playable).

[Halewijn]

glad you see what I mean 

anyway, the story about muscles was more the "way" I see it. The extra re-roll step is how I do it mechanically. (It's really not hard to remember)

I also don't want a separation between enchantments. But we see things differently. I didn't get your point in the beginning and that's why I said to keep everything simple. I always thought this step existed because many other games have this step. It's only because of this tread that I realize there is no re-roll step in mage wars. (and frankly no definition at all for re-rolling dice)

- You don't want to separate the attacker's enchantments (bear strength, AF)
- I on the other hand don't want to separate the "before you need it" (Rhino hide, AF)

So, basically, we want the same thing, but have another point of view about the re-roll.

[exid]

I also don't want a separation between enchantments. But we see things differently. I didn't get your point in the beginning and that's why I said to keep everything simple.

- You don't want to separate the attacker's enchantments (bear strength, AF)
- I on the other hand don't want to separate the "before you need it" (Rhino hide, AF)

So, basically, we want the same thing, but have another point of view about the re-roll.

i don't understand the link you see between rhino hide and A's favor...

[Halewijn]

- If you roll the dice and see that the damage, you can decide to (not) reveal rhino hide. If you don't need it or the damage is all piercing you simply don't reveal it.
- In the same manner I inspect the dice as an attacker and decide to reveal if I want a better roll. If it's already decent I won't reveal it and save the mana/surprise.

For me personally I don't think either of those rules make sense. I would say you need to reveal everything during the assemble dice step. RHINO and AKIRO. The rules are clear about rhino hide so I find it strange to allow rhino hide after the roll but won't allow AF after the roll. (my view of separating between enchantments)

I hope I made myself clear.  Technical discussions like this are hard over the internet in a different language.

[sIKE]

- If you roll the dice and see that the damage, you can decide to (not) reveal rhino hide. If you don't need it or the damage is all piercing you simply don't reveal it.
- In the same manner I inspect the dice as an attacker and decide to reveal if I want a better roll. If it's already decent I won't reveal it and save the mana/surprise.

For me personally I don't think either of those rules make sense. I would say you need to reveal everything during the assemble dice step. RHINO and AKIRO. The rules are clear about rhino hide so I find it strange to allow rhino hide after the roll but won't allow AF after the roll. (my view of separating between enchantments)

I hope I made myself clear.  Technical discussions like this are hard over the internet in a different language.

I always imagine Conan taking a swipe at the enemy (bad dice roll), scoring no damage, and then (in my mind, Schwarzenegger's voice of course) a quick prayer: Crom let my sword split my enemies skull open! (reveal Akiro's Favor and re-roll dice).