New warlock stuff!

[Shifthappens]

I'm starting to build an Adramelech Warlock book and still trying to figure out what is worth it. There doesn't seem to be much discussion yet about the new spells so here goes! (link to spells since they are not in the SBB yet: http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13984.0)

Sesiryx:
I can't see why he wouldn't be included, he's just way too nice to not have.

Adramelech's Touch:
With the Arraxian Crown Walock it's okay, since he's a little more then the other one about curses, but it has just way too much synergy with the Adramelech warlock and with the new torment. At least 2! It's expensive point wise and expensive on mages, yet easely dispellable. It shouldn't be the first curse cast so that once it's there, the opponent might not have any dispell remaining.

Adramelech's torment and Ignite:
If a warlock has the torment, i feel like ignite is a waste. The torment makes it so that placing burns take no action and same mana cost as ignite, and it can be done just before fireweaving to stack the fire on a kill target (most likely mage) by burning somethign else in the zone then moving the burn on the kill target. And torment cant be nullified (but still, triggering nullify with ignite isnt so bad, yet it can also be done with curse that you have many of) In fact, the new torment is so good from my point of view that i'd include 2-3 of it just in case it gets dissolved. The ability to burn without wasting an action is great.

Infernal scourger:
He's nice, kind off, but he feels... frail. Sure it has a 3 dice piercing 1 counterstrike, but he's not dangerous enough that it makes focusing him worth it. He can go up to 4 dices if the warlock has the helm and the other one is burning. But for counterstrike to be nice, i feel like a creature should be tougher. It feels like he's great against swarms, but poor against elite. Warlock can already destroy swarms with AoE fire, and the swarms are unlikely to focus the scourger. He's also not tough enough to survive more then 2-3 hits from "elite" creatures.

Arcane Corruption:
I don't know... maybe 1 in a book but no more. The opponent need to stack many enchants for it to but worth the time (2 minimum) and we have so many curses to that directly counter and or overwhelm buffs that its a little bit too situational. No more then 1 in any warlock book.

Rust:
Of all things a swarm fear, armor is a big one, and with the torment and the smoldering curse, it make this curse really worth it. it cost 1 to 3 less then acid ball to make sure it really has 2 less armor, and it doesn't go away with the armor swapping shenanigan. I'll include 2 for sure in any swarm book with warlock.

Blood Demon:
Would be great as a blood reaper with the male warlock, but i'm not sure if its worth the spot with the new warlock, and same for dark pact slayer. The new warlock seems to have 2 main strategy, being lots of fire and/or swarm. Having expensive creatures is okay, but which one to chose? The dark pact slayer seems better at killing stuff then the blood demon, but the blood demon is more durable, sort of, with vampirism and flying. The Dark pact slayer is better at killings things with armor, that swam and fire has trouble with (like, its fire immune or burnproof). I feel like blood demon is better with male warlock and situational with the other one. Dark pact slayer helps kill what burn and swarm can't, so he still has his place.

Cerberus:
He's a superb defensive creature, but wayyyy too overpriced if you want to use him with a warlock. If, somehow, the conjuration in question gets destroyed, hes not worth more then a 9 mana creature with his stats, and if he's out, hes easier to teleport, push, or tanglevine if the conjuration really must be destroyed. I won't include it with the new warlock, but maybe with a graveyard or altar of skull necro it might be nice.

Devil's Trident:
As a blast spell, it's not mana efficient. can't get more then 1 burn, and for the mana, the number of dice is low. As a control spell, the cripple is uncertain, so it's a risky thing if one is hoping for cripple. We have 2 tools that cover the 2 roles. Fireball and enfeeble. Both are better at their own role. Sure it doesn't do both, but doing both is wierd. If you really need to control a creature's damage, slow is great if you run. it won't follow AND attack, and it's there to stay. If you try to control it by killing it, the little bit of damage from Devil's trident isn't enough. better to fireball or fireblast (for 2 less mana for same number of dice and more chance to burn). So far, i'm not convinced of the role this is supposed to have.

Bloodfire Helmet:
Going swarm? get it once or twice in your book.

Sardonix:
Hmmmmmm, he's devastating that's for sure, but the price to include/play him is huge. The biggest synergy it has is the finite life in the zone trait. I won't inblude it.

Combustion:
It's a great finisher in a fire book, and thats about it. maybe 1 of it, but no more, since it's too situational to take 2 of. For the same mana, a  flamestrike has the same number of dice as combusting 2 burns, so it need 3 or more burn to be worth it.

Wildfire Imp:
Enough discussion is there already about its swarm potential.

[sIKE]

Great write up and great observations, I really like how these all worked out quite honestly.

Devil's Trident:
As a blast spell, it's not mana efficient. can't get more then 1 burn, and for the mana, the number of dice is low. As a control spell, the cripple is uncertain, so it's a risky thing if one is hoping for cripple. We have 2 tools that cover the 2 roles. Fireball and enfeeble. Both are better at their own role. Sure it doesn't do both, but doing both is wierd. If you really need to control a creature's damage, slow is great if you run. it won't follow AND attack, and it's there to stay. If you try to control it by killing it, the little bit of damage from Devil's trident isn't enough. better to fireball or fireblast (for 2 less mana for same number of dice and more chance to burn). So far, i'm not convinced of the role this is supposed to have.

The Trident can't target Conjurations either, unlike Fireball and Flameblast.

[magerunner]

Great write up and great observations, I really like how these all worked out quite honestly.

Devil's Trident:
As a blast spell, it's not mana efficient. can't get more then 1 burn, and for the mana, the number of dice is low. As a control spell, the cripple is uncertain, so it's a risky thing if one is hoping for cripple. We have 2 tools that cover the 2 roles. Fireball and enfeeble. Both are better at their own role. Sure it doesn't do both, but doing both is wierd. If you really need to control a creature's damage, slow is great if you run. it won't follow AND attack, and it's there to stay. If you try to control it by killing it, the little bit of damage from Devil's trident isn't enough. better to fireball or fireblast (for 2 less mana for same number of dice and more chance to burn). So far, i'm not convinced of the role this is supposed to have.

The Trident can't target Conjurations either, unlike Fireball and Flameblast.

for all the draw backs, I do have to say that the piercing +2 is pretty nice.

[BoomFrog]

It seems like a good spell to hit a guard with if you are willing to kill the guard and are just hoping the cripple knocks off his guard token. Or a flyer you are going to knock down.

[barriecritzer]

Cerberus would be better in a necromancer book than a warlock book since most of the non-necromancer dark conjurations are not worth using.

[Wildhorn]

Cerberus would be better in a necromancer book than a warlock book since most of the non-necromancer dark conjurations are not worth using.

The new warlorck with a Pentagram would need one to protect the Pentagram.

[Shifthappens]

i feel like once a few creatures are out, the new warlock has already a ton of options so that theres no need to be overprotective of the pantagrame.

Also, the more i think about it, the less sure i am about wildfire imps. They are great for swarm, but so damn squishy... Its nicve that you can stack them in a zone then BAM! but then, if your opponent has a few creatures guarding, your imps are gonna die fast with only 5 health. Its hard to beat the falcon or the zombies for swarms. Both have a way to survive/evade hits. The imps are offensive, but not defensive enough. I need to test them, but i'm not sure swarming is the name of the game with any of the warlocks. like, maybe the bats and the imps together are better then only imps, yet bat has not synergy unfortunatly :S. But at least they wont die as fast if the opponent isn't guarding, and thats what makes me wonder about the imp. Maybe having some way to incapacitate, like force bash, or to ignore guard with tanglevine, will help, but its starting to be hella expensive.

If they are one shots because they die, they are better of replaced by more flamestrike and a hawkeye... Same mana cost, and more damage (and chance of burn)

anyone has any data to share about wildfire imp play?

[Lord0fWinter]

anyone has any data to share about wildfire imp play?

They are indeed quite squishy. Guards are the best way to deal with them and then they usually end up dying from the counterstrike (depending on the creature they attacked). Despite this, I almost won with them. My first game, which I lost, I had 4 of them out in my opponent's zone, along with my Mage. He was Priestess and had his Mage, an Asyran Cleric, and the Guardian Angel. He would guard with both of his creatures and since they weren't on fire, the Imps would only roll 1 die against them. B/c of this, I used my Mage to attack the Guardian Angel to get rid of the guard so I'd still have 3 potential attacks on the Mage. It was working well until the Imps started dying and my offense stalled.

Recorded a 2nd game between the same Mages. Played out quite differently from the first match. I'll be editing the video this week and hopefully upload it soon.

[Dr.Cornelius]

Opposing guards should not be much of a hindrance for Wildfire Imps.  Use Force Push or Teleport to control your opponent's positioning, then the Imps can move or teleport to attack the target. 

Also, the Imp's teleport ability makes them much more efficient than similar creatures when being summoned from rear area spawnpoint.  Recommend summoning a Firebrand Imp or two to start the burn, then Wildfire the rest of the game.   Played a close match against this setup, and nearly lost before narrowly managing to eliminate all 6 of opponent's Wildfire Imps and around 4 more Firebrands.

Sesiryx is a trap.  Adramelech Warlock needs to run swarm strategy to take advantage of her special ability, otherwise you are better off with the classic warlock.  Swarm requires Pentagram + Harmonize opening, so Sesiryx is at best a midgame play.  Likely to have better options for 12 mana at that point.

Adramelech's Touch is also a trap.  Even discounting the fact that the AW is likely to have a Fire Ring and/or Hawkeye, what is the likelihood that Adramelech's Touch will end up doing more damage than a simple Flameblast?  Avoid Adramelech's Touch - it is a highly inefficient card.

Infernal Scourger is a strong creature for the classis Warlock.  Definitely a good call if your opponent is running little or no ranged direct damage and will have to engage it in melee - for example Beastmaster or Necromancer.    Scourger does enough damage that your opponent will have to deal with it, so plan ahead to drop a Block or Reverse Attack as a quick action immediately after summoning.   

Devil's Trident is an outstanding addition: great for slowing down Solo or Few Big - use it instead of Fireball against a Forcemaster or Grizzly.

[Laddinfance]

Adramelech's Touch is also a trap.  Even discounting the fact that the AW is likely to have a Fire Ring and/or Hawkeye, what is the likelihood that Adramelech's Touch will end up doing more damage than a simple Flameblast?  Avoid Adramelech's Touch - it is a highly inefficient card.

Did you mean Combustion? Adramelech's Touch is an enchantment.

[BoomFrog]

Yes but it is a spell that mostly causes so long term damage. It's fair to compare it to an attack spell. If it does less damage for the mana cost and it's applied slower then it is a poor choice to use.

Touch cost 3 mana plus 1 per burn preserved. Let's assume that each burn preserved does 2 damage. Actually wait, the math gets wonky because it basically combos with itself because burns are more valuable on a Touched creature. Hmm...

Anyone able to figure out the damage per mana per burn from Adramelech's Touch?

[Wildhorn]

A burn has an average of 1 damage. So paying 1 mana to keep it up is very valuable. Even more when you consider it is direct damage (no armor reduction, bypass resilient and synergise with other warlock stuff).

[ACG]

I'll give it a shot:

Consider the simple case in which a creature has one burn, and assume that you will always pay the mana cost to keep the burn. Each upkeep phase, there is a 2/3 chance of doing 1.5 damage (on average) and a 1/3 chance of paying 1 mana. Over an infinite number of turns, the mana-to-damage ratio is (1/3):(1) = 1:3

So for each burn, Adramelech's Touch has a mana-to-damage ratio of 1:3.

This is hardly surprising; the average damage done by a burn over an infinite number of turns is 3, and Adramelech's touch basically lets you pay 1 mana to place a burn on a creature when an existing burn vanishes.

Damage per mana per burn = 3

Edit: Note that I am ignoring the casting cost, since it vanishes at the limit of infinity. Obviously, the casting cost would have a larger impact on the overall cost in an actual game. For analysis, it's probably best to separate the casting cost from the cost of using the ability; think of it as paying 3 mana (or 5 for a mage) to give you the option of inflicting 3 damage per mana per burn on the creature.

[Boocheck]

Thank you Math People. Without you, world would be in chaos (i mean it!)

[Shifthappens]

Then, the same could be done to calculate the damage per mana of many spells

i'm not sure if it has been done before, but if not yay for that, is it has, then, i worked for nothing :S

I'm gonna assume many things:
-No hawkeye on the warlock (maybe it's worth the 2 spellpoints, 3 mana and action, but not sure yet)
-Fireshaper ring
-Opponent creature may have a curse for flame + 1, which not only gives +1 damage die to all fire, including zone fire attack that can't be buffed otherwise, but it also improves on the chance for burn condition. The additional damage for each spell is gonna be different depending on the chance of burn, so i'm gonna do the math for each spell with and without a curse on. Also gonna go up to flame + 2 and flame + 3 for math's sake depending on creatures so it can be known if it matters.
-Adramelech's touch not included in any damage formula)
-1 Burn is worth 3 damage.
-Average damage is one per die (    (2*0+2*1+2*2)/6=1  )
-won't consider armor, since it depends on the opponent. just consider half of the damage per die as being critical and substract the armor from the non critical other half of the damage.
i've made an excel sheet about that on dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qyjy2mn1cwi27f/Fire%20Damage%20per%20Mana%20calculations%20for%20Adramelech%20Warlock.xlsx
Unsuprisingly, flameblast is one of the best since it's mana efficient and yet quite damaging. Ring of fire is great if you have more then one enemy, it's 1 mana better then flameblast then for similar result as a 2 buffed flameblast (like, with ring)

Fireball is good, but you pay 3 more mana for 2.75 damage more overall. its better against high armor target for sure because of the higher number of dice, so theres that to concider