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Author Topic: Openings, pt. 2  (Read 8047 times)

blackirishguilt

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Openings, pt. 2
« on: July 09, 2014, 08:30:40 AM »
Alright guys and gals, we've got theory discussion going in the other thread, so lets use this one to look at specific openings.  Hopefully, this will be a place we can discuss optimal openings for different Mages and playstyles, compiled for easy reference.  Here is the suggested format:

Mage: Name of Mage
Playstyle: Aggressive/Defensive/Economy/Midrange

T1: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]
T2: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]
T3: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]

Brief discussion on card/action choices, timing, and general strategy of the opening.


Don't feel restricted or locked in to 3 turns, but it's probably a good general guideline for the opening phase of the game.  If we get lots of suggestions and discussion I will pull some of the better openings and compile them here in the first post later. 

Thanks for contributing everyone!
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 08:59:24 AM »
Mage: Necro
Playstyle: Aggressive/Economy

T1: 20
Action 1 Death Ring
Action 2 Libro 
6 remaining Mana

T2: 16(1)
Deployment Zombie Brute
Action 1 Meditation Amulet
Action 2 Meditate
5 remaining Mana

T3: 15(1)
Deployment Zombie Brute
Action 1 Meditate
Action 2 Harmonize on yourself
2 remaining Mana

At this point you're channeling 11 per turn plus have the option to meditate. You can get out a Brute per turn. And then Frenzy them all at the other Mage once you have a few out. Meditation isn't required to do this but I've used it with pretty good success. You could also use something instead of Brutes but they're probably my favorite Zombie creature. Venomous zombies would be my 2nd choice for this. You could possible get out 2 per turn if using those without Meditation.



Maybe a better opening would be:

T1: 20
Action 1 Death Ring
Action 2 Libro 
6 remaining Mana

T2: 16(1)
Deployment Venomous Zombie
Action 1 Leather Gloves
Action 2 Another Venomous
3 remaining Mana

T3: 13(1)
Deployment Venomous Zombie
Action 1 Rhino Hide facedown
Action 2 Another Venomous Zombie
0 remaining Mana
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 09:08:24 AM by Lord0fWinter »
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Death-from-above

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 09:32:16 AM »
Is the (1) coming from the [mwcard=DNQ02]Death Ring[/mwcard]? Remember you have the opportunity to use the Death Ring up to twice per round. Not that big of a difference but it can help get out your zombies faster.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 09:42:57 AM »
Is the (1) coming from the [mwcard=DNQ02]Death Ring[/mwcard]? Remember you have the opportunity to use the Death Ring up to twice per round. Not that big of a difference but it can help get out your zombies faster.

The (1) is from Libro. Yeah twice a round is part of why I made the other opening as well. Getting out 2 Venomous per round so I get the full benefit of the Death Ring.
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Death-from-above

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 09:53:22 AM »
I probably should have done the math on the mana to figure out you were adding both discounts. My bad.

Anyway back on topic, I can contest to the usefulness of the brute opening. You have used that before on me and I beat me pretty good. I can also see the venomous zombies being a pain to repel.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 10:36:39 AM »
Anyway back on topic, I can contest to the usefulness of the brute opening. You have used that before on me and I beat me pretty good. I can also see the venomous zombies being a pain to repel.

I'm beginning to think this is actually the better way to go in most situations. 4 Venomous Zombies down by turn 3 vs 2 Brutes by turn 3. Amount of attack dice is the same but you have better action advantage, not to mention 4 chances to inflict a Taint marker, which is amazing. Plus you have armor in that scenario. Of course you could take out the Meditation Amulet in the other opening and substitute armor instead. But still.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 10:39:00 AM by Lord0fWinter »
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DaveW

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2014, 07:48:22 AM »
Hopefully, this will be a place we can discuss optimal openings for different Mages and playstyles, compiled for easy reference.  Here is the suggested format:

Mage: Name of Mage
Playstyle: Aggressive/Defensive/Economy/Midrange

T1: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]
T2: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]
T3: (starting Mana) Action 1; Action 2 [remaining Mana]

...

If we get lots of suggestions and discussion I will pull some of the better openings and compile them here in the first post later.

Are you saying that we should post openings here for any mage, or the you will be adding certain ones here yourself?
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Myrddin

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2014, 07:04:32 AM »
Mage: Necro
Playstyle: Aggressive/Economy

T1: 20
Action 1 Death Ring
Action 2 Libro 
6 remaining Mana

T2: 16(1)
Deployment Zombie Brute
Action 1 Meditation Amulet
Action 2 Meditate
5 remaining Mana

T3: 15(1)
Deployment Zombie Brute
Action 1 Meditate
Action 2 Harmonize on yourself
2 remaining Mana

At this point you're channeling 11 per turn plus have the option to meditate. You can get out a Brute per turn. And then Frenzy them all at the other Mage once you have a few out. Meditation isn't required to do this but I've used it with pretty good success. You could also use something instead of Brutes but they're probably my favorite Zombie creature. Venomous zombies would be my 2nd choice for this. You could possible get out 2 per turn if using those without Meditation.



Maybe a better opening would be:

T1: 20
Action 1 Death Ring
Action 2 Libro 
6 remaining Mana

T2: 16(1)
Deployment Venomous Zombie
Action 1 Leather Gloves
Action 2 Another Venomous
3 remaining Mana

T3: 13(1)
Deployment Venomous Zombie
Action 1 Rhino Hide facedown
Action 2 Another Venomous Zombie
0 remaining Mana
Personally, I'd get at least one Zombie Brute out for the Guard ability. Admittedly it's pretty limited given bloodthirsty, but it will block one attack and get you the return attack.

If your retaliation doesn't hurt them, great: you can guard again!
If it does, great: you get more dice!

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 06:29:37 PM »
Interesting to see how different people open. I like opening Necromancer with:
1) 20 mana; Death Ring (-5) + Graveyard (-14); 1 mana left
2) 11 mana; Libro (-9) + Harmonize (-2) on Graveyard; 0 mana left
3) 10 mana; reveal Harmonize (-2), deploy 1 Venomous Zombie (-4), harmonize Libro (-4); 0 mana left
4+) Deploy a Zombie Crawler from Libro every round and pump out Venomous Zombies and Zombie Minions from Graveyard when it feels necessary. Also conserve mana by putting on Leather Boots and Leather Gloves.

I am a fan of using both spawnpoints heavily in order to take full advantage of Death Ring.

When I think of openings I think the key things to establish are:
1) Spawnpoints
2) Rings
3) Protection
4) Weapons (optional)

Roughly speaking the first 5-6 spells you cast constitute your opening. However many turns it takes to cast these spells depends on how expensive they are.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 06:32:07 PM by MrSaucy »
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sdougla2

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 03:22:12 AM »
I never Harmonize Libro, and it seems hard to take full advantage of the action advantage offered by Graveyard and Libro at the same time. Death Ring Helps, but I can already cast 2 creatures/round with just Libro. I suppose I could use Meditation Amulet, but that doesn't seem efficient to get going when neither spawnpoint is a Battle Forge. It also seems extremely slow to get going for how much economy you get out of it.

Here are a few openings that I'm interested in using. Some I have used, some I've just theorycrafted:

Straywood Beastmaster

Aggressive

Turn 1 (19): Sprint to NC -> Battle Forge (11)
Turn 2 (20): Ring of Beasts -> Steelclaw Grizzly -> FD enchantment (1)
Turn 3 (10): Enchanter's Ring -> FD enchantment -> Pet Thunderdrift Falcon (1)

This sets me up for a decently powerful attack on round 4 even if my opponent stays in their starting corner. The 2 enchantments would generally be Bear Strength and Cheetah Speed, both on the mage, at least against an opponent that stays in their starting corner, but other options are worth considering. I would probably switch the Cheetah Speed into either Cobra Reflexes or Rhino Hide if my opponent was being more aggressive. I have some economy from Battle Forge and the rings, I can switch into swarm pretty easily if my opponent seems vulnerable to that, and I'm threatening 18 dice/round.

Johktari Beastmaster

Aggressive

Turn 1 (19): Lair -> Harmonize (0)
Turn 2 (9) [3]: Dire Wolf (0)
Turn 3 (9) [3]: Ivarium Longbow -> Shoot (1) [3]

Depending on my opponent, I will place the Harmonized Lair in either the NC (against aggressive opponents) or FC (against defensive opponents). I will then use the Lair to cast creatures, preferably Dire Wolves, although there are other options, in order to pressure my opponent and hinder them. I try to keep my mage 2 zones away from the action. If my opponent tries to chase my mage, I use Mongoose Agility, Tanglevine, Surging Wave, and Teleport to stay away from them while my animals tear them apart. If they fight my animals, I can hit them repeatedly with bow attacks.

Forcemaster

Aggressive

Turn 1 (20): Sprint to NC -> Battle Forge (12)
Turn 2 (22): Enchanter's Ring -> Steelclaw Grizzly -> FD Bear Strength (3)
Turn 3 (13): Force Ring -> FD Cheetah Speed -> Force Pull -> Reveal Enchantments -> Attack with Bear (4)

This opening lets me put a lot of pressure on my opponent. They'll have a tough time escaping the full attack from the Steelclaw due to Force Pull, and I'll probably play Galvitar turn 4 in order to ratchet up the pressure. Force Pull can either be used on the Steelclaw to pull it forward a zone or on the enemy mage to pull them a zone towards me. I would generally rather pull the opponent a zone towards me, since that sets up a Galvitar followup better, but if they play Eagleclaw Boots, I can still get my attack in during round 3. I don't tend to like openings that spend resources on guaranteeing an attack in round 2-3 (aside from Grimson rush), but Force Pull is a much smaller investment than Teleport or Force Push or especially Divine Intervention.

Warlord

Economic

Turn 1 (19): Battle Forge -> Construction Yard (4)

This is something you can do in every matchup. It gives you some economy, sets up a potential Barracks play, and gives you options for rapidly switching into defense. If your opponent doesn't put you under much immediate pressure, you'll follow up with something like this:

Turn 2 (13): Meditation Amulet -> Meditate -> Barracks (2)
Turn 3 (11) [2]: General's Signet Ring -> Orc Butcher -> Meditate -> Armory (1)

Against an aggressive opponent, you'll probably do something like this instead:

Turn 2 (13): General's Signet Ring -> Orc Butcher -> Wall of Earth (0)
Turn 3 (9): Leather Boots -> Goblin Slinger -> Leather Gloves (0)

Necromancer

Economic/Defensive

Turn 1 (20): Death Ring -> Libro (6)
Turn 2 (16): Venomous Zombie -> Venomous Zombie -> Leather Gloves (3)
Turn 3 (13): Venomous Zombie -> Venomous Zombie -> Leather Boots (0)

Death Ring -> Libro gives me a big boost to my economy extremely efficiently. I then want to get out all of my Venomous Zombies so that an aggressive opponent will have their creatures torn apart. This allows me to apply counter pressure against aggression. I would change this opening around against a mage that relies on Nonliving creatures or that didn't pressure me early, but I don't often see an opponent leave a Necromancer alone for very long. I like to get armor out earlier than usual with the Necromancer, as he is the squishiest mage in the game.

Arraxian Crown Warlock

Aggressive

Turn 1 (19): Sprint to NC (19):
Turn 2 (28): Lord of Fire (4)
Turn 3 (13): Dark Pact Slayer Blood Reaper

This opening is certainly not action efficient, but it does put your opponent under extreme pressure very quickly. The most efficient means of reducing the damage from Lord of Fire are Dragonscale Hauberk and Elemental Cloak, neither of which does anything by itself to stop the pressure from a Dark Pact Slayer Blood Reaper. Alternatively you could play a Mana Crystal turn 1, do something else turn 2, and then follow up on turn 4 or 5 with Dark Pact Slayer Blood Reaper + Rouse the Beast (there are many variations you can try like this). Often a Lord of Fire rush will get shut down if Adramelech gets killed, but that's not nearly as big of a problem if you already have a Dark Pact Slayer Blood Reaper down.
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Myrddin

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 02:49:21 PM »
Interesting to see how different people open. I like opening Necromancer with:
1) 20 mana; Death Ring (-5) + Graveyard (-14); 1 mana left
2) 11 mana; Libro (-9) + Harmonize (-2) on Graveyard; 0 mana left
3) 10 mana; reveal Harmonize (-2), deploy 1 Venomous Zombie (-4), harmonize Libro (-4); 0 mana left
4+) Deploy a Zombie Crawler from Libro every round and pump out Venomous Zombies and Zombie Minions from Graveyard when it feels necessary. Also conserve mana by putting on Leather Boots and Leather Gloves.

I am a fan of using both spawnpoints heavily in order to take full advantage of Death Ring.
Definitely interesting stuff! How aggressive would an opponent have to be for you to move away from this 'economic' opening? Against my normal forcemaster opponent, for instance, you'd have been hit for 10 dice on turn 3 and would have very little time to use those zombies! In general, I'd be very scared of an opening that doesn't give you any armour OR any creatures that can guard.

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 06:11:24 PM »
Interesting to see how different people open. I like opening Necromancer with:
1) 20 mana; Death Ring (-5) + Graveyard (-14); 1 mana left
2) 11 mana; Libro (-9) + Harmonize (-2) on Graveyard; 0 mana left
3) 10 mana; reveal Harmonize (-2), deploy 1 Venomous Zombie (-4), harmonize Libro (-4); 0 mana left
4+) Deploy a Zombie Crawler from Libro every round and pump out Venomous Zombies and Zombie Minions from Graveyard when it feels necessary. Also conserve mana by putting on Leather Boots and Leather Gloves.

I am a fan of using both spawnpoints heavily in order to take full advantage of Death Ring.
Definitely interesting stuff! How aggressive would an opponent have to be for you to move away from this 'economic' opening? Against my normal forcemaster opponent, for instance, you'd have been hit for 10 dice on turn 3 and would have very little time to use those zombies! In general, I'd be very scared of an opening that doesn't give you any armour OR any creatures that can guard.

I put on Leather Boots and Leather Gloves turn 4. I also pack my Necro spellbooks with Brace Yourself and Block solely to protect my mage. And with the addition of Disarm and Arcane Corruption Necro vs. FM seems to be more in the Necro's favor.

I don't get how opening in 4 turns is just SO much slower than finishing your opening in 3 turns. Or does everyone these days just go super aggro and kill the fun of the game? It isn't like you can't come back in matches too. Sometimes spending more time to build up pays off later in the game. I can't count the games I have won simply because my opponent didn't spend enough time building up in the beginning. It is like attacking in chess before you even have king safety... if the defender survives you can be in a whole lot of trouble.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 06:13:15 PM by MrSaucy »
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sdougla2

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Re: Openings, pt. 2
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 06:26:33 PM »
It's not that finishing in 4 turns is that much objectively slower than finishing in 3 turns, it's just a matter of when efficient aggressive options can really start hitting you (generally round 3-4). You can come back from committing a little bit more to econ than you really should have, but it's much more precarious than switching into defense at the optimal time. While you'll have a potentially stronger late game from the extra round of econ, you're also a bit more vulnerable to being killed, as you'll probably take a bit more damage for at least the first round you get attacked, and likely for several more rounds.

In particular, because of the way the timing for creatures works, you generally want to have at least your first creature ready to act by the time your opponent is likely to be hitting you. That way you have the option of guarding, and you're applying at least some counter pressure.
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