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Author Topic: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?  (Read 5976 times)

runatyr

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First off:
Thank you to each and every Mage Wars person I met at Origins:
Shad0w: You gave a world of insight.... I thank you for that.

The other day I was looking through my cards trying to come up with my
first build not based upon prior posts (if I do come up with something looking similar...it's unintentional I apologize).

So much of what I have heard about Mage Wars has centered around "work your plan" Where it's
"wall in a mage" or "sprint the JBM for a quick kill"
A lot of what I read centers around getting you offense out to take out your opponent mage.

Ok... so what am I talking about? Rocky ??
Well for any of you old enough to remember the first Rocky movie...you know that basically he got the hell beat out of him (I know...not surprising in a boxing film) And Yes I know he lost....but let's shelve that for the example. ;D

Basically...I'm toying with the idea
"What if I can live long enough to go through most of my opponents offensive spell book" (with control and slow DoTs) and NOT casts most of my offense spells until absolutely needed.  Then, in the later rounds, simply refuse to fall down or yield.

I'm talking major long term turtling and life/mana regeneration/healing to offset damage taken.
Which mage lends itself to this type of approach best? Druid? Priestess? A Mage?
What sort of items are best for offsetting the most damage long term ? Healing wand? Perhaps a mage with Voltaric shiled and a regen belt? 

Is this even feasible? Or is the game designed such that ultimately offense will outstretch and defenses set up to mitigate?

Please discuss

-Runatyr

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 08:42:20 AM »
Priestess would be the bet for that.
You would need tons of Block, Reverse Attack, Reverse Magic, Dispel, Nullify.

It would be a long borig game. And you would still need somethig to get ride of enemy creatures.

Sailor Vulcan

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Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 09:49:14 AM »
Wizard

R1: gate to Voltari and mana crystal
R2: if facing aggro build, Deploy Gargoyle, cast block or nullify on yourself. If enemy is not aggressing this round, switch rounds 2 and 3.
R3: second mana crystal, if your first enchant was not revealed cast whichever one you have not cast yet on yourself, Block or Nullify.
R4: If your facing multiple creatures but they haven't reached you yet, cast suppression orb and enchanters wardstone. If they have reached you cast suppression cloak and then enchanters wardstone during the final qc phase. If you're facing a buddy build cast essence drain/enfeeble on the buddy(s) and then enchanters wardstone in an adjacent zone. If you're facing a solo build, just cast enchanters wardstone and armor ward.
R5: sunfire amulet and either armor, armor ward, enchanters wardstone, mana crystal, nullify, block, or regrowth.

Onwards: keep deploying intercepting guards as needed. Cast more enchanters wardstones as needed. Put more armor on yourself, make sure you have armor ward on you, and veterans belt. When things are destroyed, replace them. When your opponent increases their channeling, you must also. Jinx the enemy when you think they might be about to cast a threatening quick spell. Include max of block, nullify, reverse magic, and reverse attack. Your win conditions are of course, stranglevine and force crush.

Not entirely sure that this will work.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 09:52:56 AM by Imaginator »
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sIKE

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 10:20:49 AM »
This basically would be a control build, the Priestess would be your best bet or you can use the Priestess Stat card with the Priest card to matchup with your theme.

You will need lots of the cards that you have mentioned along with some regeneration (cut men) so you can see at the end of the battle to win. Sunfire Amulet combined with the Regeneration Belt should cover the taking a beating part and getting stronger, madder and better late into the game.

The only thing I cant help you with is switching from South Paw to an Orthodox stance, there just isn't a spell for that.  8)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 04:58:24 PM by sIKE »
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Shad0w

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 12:47:44 PM »
My choices would be Priestess, Druid, or Wiz. Druid would be the hardest to play in a post FiF meta.
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sdougla2

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2014, 10:38:26 PM »
Reminds me a bit of my Priestess build. I play some things that can be used for offense early, but I generally focus on increasing their survivability rather than their damage output, and then I'll often work my way through my opponent's threats, wearing them down.

It sounds like you want to either play control or possibly attrition. For control, I would go with a Wizard, Priestess, or Druid, as Shadow suggested. For attrition I would go with a Wizard, Priestess, Necromancer, or Warlord.

Armor stacking + Voltaric Shield is good at mitigating damage, but it's vulnerable to Corrode.

Veteran's Belt + Armor stacking is ridiculously good at mitigating damage if your opponent cannot stack Corrode on your mage. That's why I think it works best with the Priestess. Restore lets you efficiently remove Corrode. Alternatively, you can use it with another mage, and then use Wand of Healing to remove Corrode, but that still leaves you vulnerable to Corrode, just not as vulnerable as without Wand of Healing.

Defenses are another nice option for mitigating damage. You cannot replace Armor with Defenses, but they are a nice supplement. If you opt for the Anvil Throne Warlord, Reflex Boots with the Rune of Shielding gives you a 5+ Defense, which is fantastic.

There are a variety of sources of healing you can use. If you don't use Veteran's Belt, use Regrowth Belt. If you do use Veteran's Belt, use Regrowth. Dark mages can use Death Link. Sunfire Amulet is an option, as are Vampirism, Minor Heal, Heal, and Healing Charm. Minor Heal, Heal, and Healing Charm are much more efficient for the Priestess, due to Divine Reward.

As long as you're not playing against a fire mage, Bridge Trolls, particularly with armor, are fantastic in this kind of build. They deal enough damage that they can wear down enemy threats effectively, they make good guards, they have enough life to make direct healing spells on them efficient, and if your opponent leaves them alone for a few rounds, they'll fully heal on their own. Kralathor is similar, but can scale up over time.

Repeated Daze/Stun chances help too. Valshalla, Samandriel, Staff of Asyra, Eisenach's Forge Hammer, and Galador come to mind in particular. Note that Akiro's Favor is fantastic with these attacks.

A Druid or Wizard control build could focus on locking down mobility. If your opponent's melee creatures can't get to you, they won't be able to hurt you. Your opponent can generally get around the first few times you do this with Teleport, but as long as you keep them from having a Mage Wand with Teleport, they'll run out of those pretty quickly. Cripple and Stuck are nice repeatable ways to lock down creatures. Vine markers can also drastically limit mobility through hindering that ignores Elusive.

You'll want to make lots of use of guards.
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Archwizard07

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 10:40:09 AM »
I really like this idea, you've inspired me to try a very resilient priest build that outlasts and mitigates all the opponent's strengths.

I love the idea of building around concepts like this or characters. I think it ties back into my RP roots. Hence really looking forward to a Paladin Mage.

baronzaltor

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2014, 02:36:29 PM »
As it happens, Im a bit of a Rocky nerd, and I havnt taken a swing at a "theme build" in a while.

Now, conventional wisdom would be to soak up as much as possible.. but thats not really what the Itallian Stallion is.   He doesnt look good at the end of his fights.  Rocky is about fighting spirit and rising above an opponent toe to toe more so than raw toughness.  Its not that Rocky tanks blow after blow, its that he keeps getting back up every time hes put down, hes not an unbreakable drill bit, its that he keeps hitting back.   Its about forcing the opponent to have to keep re-engaging and making him pay in the exchange.   Rocky, as well as dramatized sport events, are about ebb and flow of the fight.  Rocky isnt about tanking, hes about "The Eye of the Tiger"

So, Rocky's highly inspirational training montages create a fighter that is:
A) Pretty durable
B) Wins the match in trading blows. 
C) Delivers debilitating, bone crushing punches

So, as weird as its going to sound.. Araxian Warlock is the starting point in my mind.
The Warlock starts at 38 Health, which is the highest of any mage.   And he is trained in Dark, which as backwards as it sounds, has the best passive healing in the game.  The "Rocky strategy" Im going with could work with any Dark mage, but actually being trained in Dark is key to some of the cards.
Rax' Warlock also has Melee+1

So, what is the basic "Rocky" fighting style, and ways to bring these aspects to a book?

Baseline durability:
As mentioned, the Warlock stands tall at 38 health.   Suppliment it with a Sunfire Amulet, its a little pricey spellbook wise, but its slowly adding to your health.  This is going to force the opponent not to let you recover too much between rounds.   

Other tools for passive durability:
Death Link- Every turn, you can pass 2 damage off from yourself to either a friendly creature or an enemy. 
Regrowth- Nothing wrong with Regenerate, but optional.
Armor- Cheap Leathers, Veterans Belt, and so on.

Eye of the Tiger:
Rocky doesnt stand there and let the opponent batter him.. he trades blows.  He hits back, but rather than worrying about melee stacking in a traditional sense, the theme is how you see combat in Rocky.    When he is tired and worn down, his surges and second winds come from reaching deep down inside himself and throwing himself back at the opponent... not from hiding and healing or from tanking.

So, the most important engine of fighting like Rocky is: Make your opponent suffer for trading blows with you.   Rocky isnt about drinking up damage, its trading blows *despite* damage.  This is going to come in a few forms.

Vampirism:  The singlemost "Rocky-esque" card in the game.   You dont hit harder, but the more you hit the more you stay in the game.   Combined with the aforementioned Sunfire Amulet to give you a high "top end" of health, a few rounds of un-answered attacks will put you right back in shape.  This makes you more durable for fighting which is the core of the Rocky concept... this card could be called "eye of the tiger"

Demonhide Armor:  Another Dark mage only card.  This has a double effect, it gives you armor (derr), and a damage barrier.   Damage barriers go back to the idea that the opponent suffers if he boxes with you, hitting you gets them hit back.   Alternativly you can use Circle of Fire (or lightning).    The point is that hitting you is dangerous, but not hitting you is going to cost them the fight.

Retaliate:Similar philosophy as damage barriers.. make them pay for attacking you.  This is also nasty as it is a whole new attack, not a separate strike... so any melee bonuses you have re-apply.   Its also cheap AND you choose when to fire it off.

Drain Life/Soul:   The Drain cards are ace in the hole swing cards when timed right.   A round that starts with a Vampiric punch in the face and ends with a quickcast Drain Life can be a major health swing.  Its also a ranged attack that totally bypasses most defenses.    Drain Soul adds another 6 max health per use too.  These can be expensive to drop, but spending enough time in melee will help shore up mana.  If you want to bait an opponents dissolve, put Drain Life on a wand.

Optional: Helm of Fear.   Dark mage only again, but can make the opponent outright miss for attacking you..and its not a defense so it even catches unavoiable attacks.   The trouble is it wont trigger damage barriers because the attack is cancelled.

Optional: Reverse Attack.  Same philosophy... the opponent suffers for attacking you.


So, having covered the cards that run the Rocky "excels in trading blows" fighting style theres one other corner to cover:
Debilitating the opponent with crushing blows.

Rocky isnt a sandbag that drinks punchs..Mighty Mick made him into, to use his own words, "A wreckin' machine".  He spends a good deal of his training montages punching frozen meat, punching speedbags, chopping wood, punching sandbags, lifting heavy weights, building hand speed, honing accuracy, and generally making his fists into wrecking balls.   When Rocky punches, its not just a punch... its an attempt to knock out, knock the wind out of, stun, or otherwise break down an opponent.

So, some tools that are happily accessible to the Warlock's arsenal:

Sectarus: Im such a big fan of this card that my Warlock books usually pack 2 AND a Steal Equipment, just in case an opponent plays it first in a mirror match.    But for this particular theme, it works well because it gives your melee attacks an extra edge.   Curses are how your mage will swell up the opponents eyes, knock the wind out of them, and set up your knock blows.   Its also got +1 pierce, which is handy since you are going to be utilizing Vamirism.   Every point of bypassed armor increases the chances of at least getting 1-2 health back on yoru attacks.   
Sectarus also makes some hard choices, a lot of mages only have so many Dissolves.. if they pound on your Sunfire Amulet, Demonhide Armor and more obvious upfront bait-equips, they might find themselves out when you break out the sword.

Curses-
A good fighter needs a variety of punches, and thats what these are for.  Ideally Sectarus will help you lay them, and Curseweaving will occasionally recycle them.

Marked for Death- You hit harder, which is handy since Vampirism heals you based on your damage. 
Agony- You get hit less hard. 
Enfeeble- Think of it as superior footwork
Ghoul Rot- Puts the game on a clock, and creates an expensive "must dispel"
Poison Blood- Sometimes not needed, if your own passive healing is keeping you ahead of the opponent. 
Magebane- Another slow bleed type of damage, but the opponent takes damage for casting
Honestly I could list all the curses.. Rust, Chains of Agony.. they are all good and run cheap for a Warlock.

Jinx- This sucker punch isnt a curse, but it really should be.  When timed right, Jinx is a coffin nail.. and when just cast casually its still incredibly disruptive.  In the "eye of the tiger" style engine, where you are generating passive effects while trading blows it can be a huge step ahead of the game to make the opponent waste half their turn on a botched dispel. 


Now, thats by no means a full spellbook and most of the individual parts are optional or adjustable.  I just waned to detail the overall fighting style that came to me on a "rocky" flavored character book.   I left out things like creatures, which is purely up to the individual person.   Theres plenty of ways to make it your own, and lots of aspects left to fill in (fundamentals like dissolves, possibility of battle forge, buffs/commands, taking advantage of fire attack spells etc).  Not to mention that a detailed flow of how to run it would need to be paced out; which aspects to start with, when to start turning on certain defenses, etc.    So theres a lot of room to grow from... thats just where my brainspace went when making a fighter who feels like Rocky.



runatyr

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Re: Ideas through Analogies...Is there a Rocky Balboa Strategy?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 08:27:26 AM »
baronzaltor:
That is a great breakdown and the Warlock as you build out would meet those criteria!
Thank you !
That was a great post. I am going to try building this out once I get a chance and finish ruminating on my current spell book adjustments.


Maybe there are some other fighting strategies/charactrers to consider (outside of boxing lol)

I'm going to ponder that.

-Runatyr