November 22, 2024, 10:04:41 PM

Author Topic: Hello Guys!  (Read 8462 times)

silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 10:38:25 PM »
Welcome new mage! May your battles be epic and victorious! Many people will give you strategy advice, I have but one piece of advice: PLAY. Play the game, and play the game some more until you find out what works for YOU. Only you know how your mind works and how you react to different situations. So play and learn. That's the only way you'll get better. Make spell books for as many different mages as you can, seek out battles with as many different mages as you can.

Always good to see a new mage!
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Aylin

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 10:42:49 PM »
Right, so I'm to assume that you or anyone else is playing at such a high level that you can actually recognize the minute details of balance such that you can make a tier list about it.

You can believe whatever you want.

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Mage Wars probably isn't perfectly balanced, but the balance is far better than it was during the core set exactly because of the expansions, so your point about expansions makes zero sense.

Whenever a new expansion is released the balance changes; new mages are added and old mages gain new spells. It is very difficult to keep each and every single mage exactly even with each other when they add new stuff every few months, and the playtesters aren't able to foresee every possible thing we'll do with them.

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You also avoided answering me about time limits, which should be set at 90mins if you want a fair competitive game.  Otherwise, it's no surprise that your list reflects highest to lowest channeling mages.

You didn't read very carefully; I did mention that I have games with and without time limits.

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How do you even know the details of your suggestion that some mages are "indisputably powerful than others" if you already admitted that your experience playing the game is varied and personal?  Mage Wars hasn't even been out long enough for anyone to make that kind of claim.

It isn't very hard to see that the Wizard is the most powerful mage or that Warlord is the least powerful. Nor is it hard to see that J. Beastmaster's signature equipment and abilities only work against living targets (and was released right before we got an undead expansion), or that her abilities don't even make sense together without gear that currently doesn't exist. Most of differences are glaringly obvious. It's only when you start comparing the Priestess, Forcemaster, Warlock, and S. Beastmaster do things get fuzzy.

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And sure, you can laugh behind your internet anonymity

Aylin is my real name, sorry.

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while I assign some kind of value to the few tournaments we actually know about, but at least I can base my opinions on what little information we do have and admit I don't know absolutes.  At least it doesn't make my posts seem even half as conceited as yours.

The game doesn't only exist in tournaments. Also, a single result cannot prove or disprove something like that. I have no idea why you thought it would.

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and admit I don't know absolutes.  At least it doesn't make my posts seem even half as conceited as yours.

Um, ok?

Zuberi

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 11:36:00 PM »
Sand Goblin
The overarching strategy for the game is simple. Kill your opponent, lol. Now, you can go about killing them in a variety of ways and there is no single overpowered strategy at the moment that dominates the game. Here is a good thread regarding a bunch of the different strategies you can take. It was written very early in the game's life, before any expansions, but I think it is still very relevant.

Pretty much any mage can be played aggressively like you desire as well. Some of them are better at it than others though. As has already been mentioned, the Forcemaster, Warlock, and Straywood Beastmaster are all notably aggressive mages. The Forcemaster is probably the fastest and hardest hitting out of the bunch, but it is also probably the most restricted in strategic options.

As far as most powerful cards are concerned, there aren't any incredibly powerful cards that I can think of. No single card consistently swings the game in your favor every time it is played. Teleport probably comes closest, but that's because it can force your opponent into a dangerous situation. It doesn't cause a bad situation itself. You have to arrange a bad position for your opponent with other spells and then use Teleport to put them into that position.

Pushing someone through a Wall of Thorns can also be really powerful if they don't have any armor. Players will learn quickly the value of armor after you do that to them a time or two.

Generally speaking though, you want to have a diverse spellbook that covers a lot of situations rather than just throwing in "powerful" cards.

When teaching the game, use the Apprentice Mode rules. Once they move up to the full game, if you feel you still have an advantage over them, you can handicap yourself by adjusting Life values. That's my best advise in regards to that. I don't really have any cards to suggest for a really powerful book to give them to help balance the playing field.

Reddawn
Charmyna made a tier list awhile back here which most of the forums agrees is pretty accurate. Some may change a mage up or down on the list, but I doubt by more than one tier. This discussion was in regards to the game in general and most people may have been basing their experience off of casual play and play on OCTGN, but I think it would still apply to timed tournaments.

Pointing to tournament victories as conclusive evidence that Aylin's list is wrong is flawed because of a lack of statistical data. Tournaments tend to have a fairly small turn out still yet, and don't always have the most optimal of builds present. That doesn't mean her list is completely accurate either, but I think you are dismissing it too quickly. It lines up fairly well with Charmyna's list and the general consensus of the forums.

You are correct that it seems to have a correlation to channeling, but that doesn't necessarily indicate causation. There's a lot of other things that are at play. I think the Wizard is on top because of the large and varied nature of the very useful arcane school. I think the Priest struggles because the holy school doesn't support his aggressive style very well. The Johktari Beastmaster has some identity issues with her abilities working together and working well against non-living. The Warlord has multiple problems. The rest of the mages she listed, I think should have all been listed as equals and her ranking of them seems somewhat subjective, but not necessarily wrong. They're just too close together for me to be comfortable to call, but others may feel comfortable ranking them.

In that light, channeling doesn't really have a say in the matter and the time limit shouldn't really matter.

Sand Goblin

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2014, 02:29:08 PM »
First off, many thanks to all who replied.

Now, to the point.

I will try Straywood Beastmaster and Warlock first, then.  I like the theme behind them. :)

My apologies about the powerful card part.  I know this game has good balance; there's no way it could get so many good reviews if the balance was poor.  However, let's be realistic.  It's impossible to achieve perfect balance.  Some cards are bound to better than others.  Not by much, but they are still powerful.  Teleport seems to be a good example.  I can see someone basing their game around using teleport to get the opposing Mage into a meat grinder.  I'll keep in mind to tell my friends to, in general, pack plenty of buffing cards. 

The overarching strategy part is good to hear.  For those that play SW, you know that the original 8 factions heavily encouraged defensive play.  It was boring, and it is a big problem on the IoS app which only has those factions plus some.  The later factions fixed this.  I was worried the same thing may be part of MW. As of right now, I only own the Core Set, and I was worried that the Core factions alone may have encouraged one strategy over the other.  It's nice to know being aggressive won't be a super steep uphill climb.  :)

I can't wait for my Core Set to arrive in the mail.  The anticipation is killing me!  :o


sIKE

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2014, 02:39:32 PM »
With just the Core, aggression is King, the Warlock took the first tourney last year when just the Core was released. 
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Dr.Cornelius

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 01:54:08 AM »
With just the Core, aggression is King, the Warlock took the first tourney last year when just the Core was released.
Pray tell how the expansions blunt King aggression's dominance. My local meta is mostly neophytes, and the environment has not yet evolved a good response to audacious aggro.

Zuberi

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 02:18:09 AM »
Just off the top of my head: Conquest of Kumanjaro adds some superb creatures for guarding and defense and the Druid is amazing at keeping her opponent locked down and under control with her vines.

My own local meta is mostly aggro mages itself, so I don't have a lot more to offer than I believe it's possible. I describe my Priest as an aggro mage, but my opponent's in my group often fuss at me blunting their assault with my use of guards, armor, and aegis as being the reason I beat them. So, I definitely think that just hitting harder and faster than your opponent is not the surest way to victory. You have to know when to strike and when to block, and this will differ depending on Mage and spellbook.

silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 02:49:33 AM »
Good ways to slow aggression down:

-Tanglevine. It's AMAZING how well this works! You can make them waste a teleport or precious attacks getting out of it.

-Sleep. It'll work great on non-mages. Stops most creatures dead in their tracks. What's more is your opponent either has to at best waste a quick action removing it somehow(wand of healing or priestess) or actually go damage their own beast!

-Walls. Almost all creatures find it difficult to walk through walls(the exception is that Kool-Aid Man chap.) There are lots of cheap little barricades out there. I play Beast Master so of course I love my Wall of Thorns but if you want something more solid get a Wall of Bones.

-Force Push. If you wanna go messing with Mind magic then you can use this super simple spell to move your opponent, and yourself around. One square can make all the difference in the world sometimes.

-Guards. Like others have said either have some cheap creature you don't mind losing take the hit, or get you some sturdy hard hitting creatures to run interference for you.

-Curses. Agony, Chains of Agony, Enfeeble, and a lot of other curses can slow an opponent down. Ghoul Rot em and make them waste time and mana getting rid of that in a hurry.

That's just some stuff off the top of my head you can find in the core set(more or less.) There's a lot more ways in the expansions.
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sIKE

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 09:17:33 AM »
With just the Core, aggression is King, the Warlock took the first tourney last year when just the Core was released.
Pray tell how the expansions blunt King aggression's dominance. My local meta is mostly neophytes, and the environment has not yet evolved a good response to audacious aggro.
Pop out a Gorgon archer and start popping arrows into anything the you don't like within two zones. Weak really sucks....
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Aylin

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 09:23:54 AM »
With just the Core, aggression is King, the Warlock took the first tourney last year when just the Core was released.
Pray tell how the expansions blunt King aggression's dominance. My local meta is mostly neophytes, and the environment has not yet evolved a good response to audacious aggro.
Pop out a Gorgon archer and start popping arrows into anything the you don't like within two zones. Weak really sucks....

Doesn't really answer the questions, as
1. Gorgon Archer was in the base set, not an expansion
2. An answer to Weak (and other conditions) was released that makes Weak not quite as painful as it once was

sIKE

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Re: Hello Guys!
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 09:34:21 AM »
The point still is once Agro became really popular Gorgon became a way to blunt it. They are very difficult to kill and are highly effective at stopping the round 5-6 deaths that these books were doing. Yes you can use a Wand of Healing to remove 1 marker, but that in no longer a direct aggressive action, and if two are out then it is even worse. Walls and traps are also commonly brought out to slow the game down, along with Interceptors like the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard]. Most agro books today in the OCTGN meta have a Plan "B" as naked aggression rarely plays out well and you have to be able shift a bit and adjust your play style a bit to manage to pull off the win.
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