Zombie Swarm - too powerful?

[DaveW]

I was comparing what a Zombie Swarm does to what Akiro's Battle Cry does, and I thought that I might be missing something. I see:

Zombie Swarm
9 Mana Cost
2 Dark spellbook points
Grants Fast and Bloodthirsty +1
Removes Lumbering, Slow, and Pest traits

Akiro's Battle Cry
14 mana cost
4 War spellbook points
Epic (only one available... can't be attached to Mage Wand / Helm of Command)
Grants Fast and Charge +2 only to Soldiers

So, for five extra mana and twice the spellbook points (for the appropriate mage) the ABC gets an extra +1 in combat (perhaps +2), and the restrictions due to its being Epic apply. Is this correct? If so, doesn't that seem like these two spells are unbalanced in comparison with each other?

The reason can't be that Zombies are more rare than Soldiers, as the Necromancer can choose to include only Zombies in his spellbook (and gain others through certain spells)... so I just don't get it.

Can someone help me understand how ABC is so much more powerful?

[Zuberi]

I'm not bothering to look it up right now, so I'll just ask: Doesn't Akrio's Battle Cry target the whole Arena? Does Zombie Swarm (Zombie Frenzy?) target the whole Arena? If not that could be an important difference. Overall though I also think Akiro's Battle Cry is a bit overpriced.

[ringkichard]

I think it's clear that Zombie Frenzy is more efficient than Akiro's Battle Cry, and that if Zombies are played competitively that there's a chance that Zombie Frenzy will be better than ABC just because ABC isn't played... because Warlord isn't played. If Zombie Frenzy is played it's better than ABC which is not played. QED.

That doesn't mean Zombie Frenzy is too powerful, it probably just means that ABC is not yet powerful enough. If and  when Warlord and Necro are both being played in the same competitive environment it'll be easier to make comparisons.

There are some more complicated issues than you can see by looking only at the two cards in isolation. No card exists in a vacuum; the  comparative ease of playing either Soldiers or Zombies, and their usefulness without the incantation are both important factors. If Soldiers become much easier to play or much more powerful (or something badly nerfs Zombies) the relative  strategic value of these cards will change, even though they'll still look uneven as printed.

[MrSaucy]

Zombie Swarm is very powerful... but not too powerful. The Necromancer is the best at swarming in my opinion, but he and his creatures have weaknesses. From games I have played Necromancer is strong vs Priestess and Druid, weak vs Warlock and Wizard, and on par with Warlord and Beastmaster. (Don't know about Forcemaster matchups; nobody I play with enjoys playing as Forcemaster.) If you let the Necromancer develop a swarm he has already won the game. However, the same can be said for Beastmaster. Making a swarm is what the Necromancer wants to do, but if you interrupt his plans he is helpless. His only defense really is his wall of creatures. Beyond that he has terrible defensive capabilities and limited healing options. So in short it is a good thing that his zombie swarm is so powerful. It really is his only chance of winning.

[IndyPendant]

My thought is that Frenzy is better than Battle Cry because, frankly, Battle Cry is a *HORRIBLE* card.  If Frenzy were balanced to Battle Cry, then no one would play it either.

FM vs WL was AW's first expansion.  They made quite a few mistakes with it, most of them on the Warlord side.  DvN and cards like Zombie Frenzy make me hopeful: that they've learned from those mistakes.

Zombie Frenzy isn't overpowered; Akiro's Battle Cry is total crap.

[MrSaucy]

Zombie Frenzy isn't overpowered; Akiro's Battle Cry is total crap.

Zombie Frenzy would be overpowered if it didn't require a full action.

Remind me what Akiro's Battle Cry is? I don't have the Kumanjaro expansion. If Akiro's Battle Cry sucks as much as you say then maybe all cards with "Akiro" in the name are cursed to be terrible (e.g. Akiro's Hammer).

[Zuberi]

maybe all cards with "Akiro" in the name are cursed

Akiro is a considered to be a tactical genius and great leader by his people. Although it might be important to remember that his people are orcs...

[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI02]Akiro's Battle Cry[/mwcard]

[MrSaucy]

[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI02]Akiro's Battle Cry[/mwcard]

Hmm. Don't think I like this one. 14 mana is steep, it only affects soldier creatures, and I would prefer standard melee buffs over buffs that depend on charge.

[Laddinfance]

maybe all cards with "Akiro" in the name are cursed

Akiro is a considered to be a tactical genius and great leader by his people. Although it might be important to remember that his people are orcs...

[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI02]Akiro's Battle Cry[/mwcard]

Akiro is one of the gods of war. The other being Lord Bellicar, the superlative strategist.

[baronzaltor]

Zombie Frenzy can also be attached to a Mage Wand for pure chaos every round, whereas Akrio's Warcry cannot because its Epic.

The only drawback to Frenzy is minor.  Zombie Frenzy says ALL zombies…which means in a Necro vs Necro matchup it can be tricky to time a casting where you benefit more than the opponent.

The only thing that Akiro's Warcry does better in my opinion is that Charge is generally a better trait to give than Bloodthirsty, as Charge doesn't override your targeting options (but since Necromancer has so many Bloodthirsty creatures he can game around that aspect pretty easily)  Also, War Cry is minimized by the fact that with Horn of Gothos Warlord can already give arena-wide Charge to his soldiers for 11 less mana.

Fun fact that both Zombie Frenzy and Akiro's War Cry have in common- I wrote the flavor text on both of them.

[Zuberi]

Akiro is one of the gods of war. The other being Lord Bellicar, the superlative strategist.

My apologies. I have not fully investigated the Lore in the game, I was just trying to be silly.

[MrSaucy]

Zombie Frenzy can also be attached to a Mage Wand for pure chaos every round, whereas Akrio's Warcry cannot because its Epic.

The only drawback to Frenzy is minor.  Zombie Frenzy says ALL zombies…which means in a Necro vs Necro matchup it can be tricky to time a casting where you benefit more than the opponent.

The only thing that Akiro's Warcry does better in my opinion is that Charge is generally a better trait to give than Bloodthirsty, as Charge doesn't override your targeting options (but since Necromancer has so many Bloodthirsty creatures he can game around that aspect pretty easily)  Also, War Cry is minimized by the fact that with Horn of Gothos Warlord can already give arena-wide Charge to his soldiers for 11 less mana.

Fun fact that both Zombie Frenzy and Akiro's War Cry have in common- I wrote the flavor text on both of them.

Zombie Frenzy can be bound to a Mage Wand, but I prefer going Deathshroud Staff + Libro Mortuos. I don't think you would bind Akiro's Warcry to a Mage Wand even if you could considering how expensive it is. Not to mention, some Warlord players prefer ditching Horn of Gothos and wielding a double-handed warhammer, particularly against swarm matchups, so they couldn't use a Mage Wand anyways.

I didn't catch that Zombie Frenzy affects all Zombies, not just friendly ones. I think another large drawback to Zombie Frenzy is that it takes a full action.

I prefer bloodthirst over charge bonuses but that is just me. I rarely used charge bonuses much as the Warlord and simply kept to Power Strike/Battle Fury.

[Aylin]

I think the closest comparison to Zombie Frenzy is actually Call of the Wild.

[DaveW]

Zombie Frenzy can also be attached to a Mage Wand for pure chaos every round, whereas Akrio's Warcry cannot because its Epic.

Zombie Frenzy can be bound to a Mage Wand, but I prefer going Deathshroud Staff + Libro Mortuos. I don't think you would bind Akiro's Warcry to a Mage Wand even if you could considering how expensive it is. Not to mention, some Warlord players prefer ditching Horn of Gothos and wielding a double-handed warhammer, particularly against swarm matchups, so they couldn't use a Mage Wand anyways.

If ABC were not Epic, then I suppose it might be bound to the Helm of Command, sidestepping the issue of what is in the weapon and shield slots.

In any case, I like the Mage Staff of all things as Warlord... it keeps a hand free for either a wand, Horn of Gothos or the Spiked Buckler when it comes out. (As an aside, I think the Warlord needs a decent one-handed weapon in the War school.)