November 21, 2024, 06:48:42 PM

Author Topic: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm  (Read 42580 times)

MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 02:50:06 AM »
How has Venomous Zombies worked? At first I thought they automatically got a spot but seeing how Plague Zombie's 8+ effect die doesn't happen often I'm wondering if 7+ makes any difference? I do like how the tainted aspect works so that they receive 3+ damage but just curious.

I tried them once. I had a Venomous Zombie last probably 5-6 turns. He attacked each turn and not ONCE did he give tainted. Haha. I know I got screwed by luck, but I like Zombie Minions a lot more. They are more consistent. Plague Zombie is more useful than Venomous Zombie in my opinion, but I am always tight on points so I include Unstable Zombie instead.

I might be wrong about this, but I think you can use Sacrificial Altar to essentially "detonate" a Plague Zombie in a busy zone, giving a chance of a ton of rot.
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sdougla2

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 03:04:16 AM »
Yes, Sacrificial Alter triggers the Plague Zombie explosion.
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MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2013, 04:27:06 PM »
Yes, Sacrificial Alter triggers the Plague Zombie explosion.

Well... looks like I am going to have to fit 1 or 2 Plague Zombies into my spellbook after all.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2013, 04:45:16 PM »
Here is a tentative new Zombie Swarm spellbook. I am going off of memory, but I am sure the spellbook is over by 20 or 30 points. Any input is welcomed.

Conjurations:   
2 Mana Crystal
2 Poison Gas Cloud
2 Wall of Bones
1 Ziggurat of Undeath
1 Deathlock

Equipment:      
1 Elemental Cloak
1 Leather Boots
1 Leather Gloves
1 Demonhide Armor
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Death Ring
1 Libro Mortuos
1 Deathshroud Staff

Enchantments:     
1 Nullify
1 Harmonize
1 Enfeeble
2 Maim Wings
2 Poisoned Blood
2 Agony
2 Ghoul Rot
2 Marked for Death
1 Death Link
??? Rise Again (0-4?)

Creatures:          
6 Zombie Walker
4 Zombie Minion
1 Shaggoth-Zora
4 Unstable Zombie
2 Zombie Brute

Incantations:
2 Seeking Dispel
4 Dispel
4 Dissolve
2 Teleport
1 Force Push
??? Animate Dead (1-4?)
??? Zombie Frenzy (1-4?)


I used a slightly modified version of  this spellbook earlier today against a Druid and it absolutely wrecked her.
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MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2013, 05:02:30 PM »
I used a slightly modified version of  this spellbook earlier today against a Druid and it absolutely wrecked her.

I don't know if it is just the circle of people I play with, but Druid has yet to beat Necromancer... in 5 different games! It is possible we all just suck at playing Druid. It is also possible that Druid vs. Necromancer isn't a very fair matchup to begin with.

I have made changes to the spellbook:
Conjurations: Taking Poison Gas Cloud out to free up points. I never seem to use Wall of Bones so I am taking that out too. Sacrifical Altar should be included.

Equipment: I want to try playing Necromancer without spawnpoints so I can be aggressive earlier on. That means bye-bye to Libro and Harmonize.

Enchantments: Minimum of 2 Rise Again feels mandatory to me.

Creatures: Plan on squeezing in 1 or 2 Plague Zombies. Good against swarms and combo nicely with Sacrifical Altar.

Incantations: Cut out 1 dispel, 1 dissolve, and 1 teleport to free up points for more Zombie Frenzy and Animate Dead.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2013, 05:17:35 PM »
I've got the altar and plague zombies in there.

But I feel like libro and harmonize is a must have for any Necromancer book.

I can't imagine him working without it but if I am wrong, let me know!
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MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2013, 06:42:04 PM »
I've got the altar and plague zombies in there.

But I feel like libro and harmonize is a must have for any Necromancer book.

I can't imagine him working without it but if I am wrong, let me know!

All it takes is a mere dissolve to completely obliterate the Libro/Harmonize strategy. The Necromancer can pop out zombies quite easily with Death Ring and his channeling of 10 mana anyways.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2013, 06:54:20 PM »
I understand that, but it gives him more actions than that opposing mage which I feel is essential to his strategy.

It really helps aid his swarming. 2 creatures per turn > 1 creature per turn. Even if it does get dissolved, he can simply pay the 3 life to put it back in his spellbook.

Although, you said you were trying to get aggressive earlier on, which is a different story. I understand your reasoning then. When I've played the Necromancer I kinda stay back and send swarms of creatures after the other mage, which I think is the predominating strategy for him currently.
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Zuberi

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2013, 11:29:25 PM »
Quote from: Lord0fWinter
Even if it does get dissolved, he can simply pay the 3 life to put it back in his spellbook.

Actually, it costs you 3 Life, 14 Mana, and 2 Actions. 3 Life to get the card back in your spellbook, 10 mana for Libro Mortuos, 4 Mana for Harmonize, 1 action to cast Libro Mortuos, and 1 action to cast Harmonize. Not to mention it causes you to miss a Deployment.

Meanwhile your opponent has spent 10 mana and 1 action to Dissolve.

sdougla2

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2013, 11:33:43 PM »
Quote from: Lord0fWinter
Even if it does get dissolved, he can simply pay the 3 life to put it back in his spellbook.

Actually, it costs you 3 Life, 14 Mana, and 2 Actions. 3 Life to get the card back in your spellbook, 10 mana for Libro Mortuos, 4 Mana for Harmonize, 1 action to cast Libro Mortuos, and 1 action to cast Harmonize. Not to mention it causes you to miss a Deployment.

Meanwhile your opponent has spent 10 mana and 1 action to Dissolve.

That's why I would never Harmonize Libro Mortuos.
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baronzaltor

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2013, 12:01:39 AM »
Quote from: Lord0fWinter
Even if it does get dissolved, he can simply pay the 3 life to put it back in his spellbook.

Actually, it costs you 3 Life, 14 Mana, and 2 Actions. 3 Life to get the card back in your spellbook, 10 mana for Libro Mortuos, 4 Mana for Harmonize, 1 action to cast Libro Mortuos, and 1 action to cast Harmonize. Not to mention it causes you to miss a Deployment.

Meanwhile your opponent has spent 10 mana and 1 action to Dissolve.

AND you lose its unspent mana.. so if you were saving it up you're out that much more.

You could run Armor Ward to make it 14 mana for a Dissolve.. but like the Warlock you have to pay that triple Holy cost, so its pretty pricy.

MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2013, 09:12:50 PM »
I feel like this is as good as its gonna get:

Conjurations: 5
1 Sacrificial Altar (1)
1 Ziggurat of Undeath (2)
1 Deathlock (2)

Equipment: 11
1 Death Ring (1)
1 Deathshroud Staff (2)
1 Elemental Cloak (2)
1 Cloak of Shadows (2)
1 Demonhide Armor (2)
1 Regrowth Belt (2)

Enchantments: 35
2 Nullify (4)
2 Block (4)
2 Agony (2)
1 Enfeeble (2)
2 Maim Wings (2)
2 Poisoned Blood (2)
2 Ghoul Rot (4)
2 Marked for Death (2)
1 Death Link (2)
2 Rise Again (6)
1 Vampirism (2)
1 Hellfire Trap (1)
1 Decoy (2)

Incantations: 36
2 Seeking Dispel (4)
3 Dispel (6)
3 Dissolve (6)
1 Force Push (2)
1 Teleport (4)
4 Zombie Frenzy ( 8 )
2 Animate Dead (6)

Creatures: 33
6 Zombie Crawlers (6)
4 Zombie Minion ( 8 )
4 Unstable Zombie ( 8 )
1 Plague Zombie (2)
1 Shaggoth-Zora (3)
2 Zombie Brute (6)

[note: I realize Vampirism can only target living creatures… Vampirism is intended to be cast on my mage (if needed be)]

« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 11:07:40 PM by MrSaucy »
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MrSaucy

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2013, 01:46:51 AM »
Once I have cemented a Zombie spellbook I am happy with, I plan on making a Necromancer spellbook that makes the most of his poison immunity. In other words, a spellbook that revolves around rot, weak, cripple, and tainted conditions as well as direct poison damage. I won't have any time this week to start the spellbook, but I may as well get the ball rolling with some ideas for core spells:

Conjurations:
Poison Gas Cloud
Idol of Pestilence (possibly a bad choice with many living creatures, idk)

Creatures:
Stonegaze Basilisk
Gorgon Archer
Darkfenne Bat
Malacoda
Venomous Zombie
Plague Zombie
Emerald Tegu
Iron Golem (simply because he is non-living... and awesome)

Enchantments:
4 Rise Again (you will have living creatures this time)

Incantations:
4 Drain Soul
2-4 Animate Dead
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 01:49:13 AM by MrSaucy »
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AsianChexMix

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2013, 07:54:11 AM »
My Necro build is a Zombie tribal (minus Ravenous Ghoul but he's got the same theme so I'm okay with that) with the Poison build (everyone's infected like The Walking Dead). I use Idol of Pestilence which doesn't hurt ANY of my nonliving zombies and automatically puts bloodthirsty on guys (which can backfire at times). I do use Poison Gas Cloud offensively and defensively. I make use of my Plague Zombies as mini tanks on guard and Sacrificial Altar which provides a nice little boost for my Brutes or Shaggoth. You may even be able to employ that now if you want since it's not too many points (Clouds hurt though for 8).
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DeckBuilder

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Re: Necromancer - Zombie Swarm
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 10:35:50 AM »
My Necro build is a Zombie tribal

An imminently sensible build of how the Zombies seem to have been designed to be played.

Obvious interactions (I suspect not all of them work) include...
Crawlers + Shaggoth + maybe Ziggurat vs. swarm + Ghoul cleaner
Sacrificial Altar + Eternal Plague Servant + Graveyard (too slow?)
Idol + Gas Cloud + Cheetah Malacoda + Animate + Deathlock
Frenzy (full) or Force Wave + lots of Zombies (Brutes to hinder!)

Just one very minor quibble...
I make use of my Plague Zombies as mini tanks on guard
Pest Guards can be ignored.

Also this build is at a disadvantage vs. nonliving (Golems, Oozes, Skeleton reconstruction/pop-up archers).
I also don't fancy it against Elite flyers, mana denial and all the usual Necromancer silver bullets.
For more consistency, you may think about shoring up the weaknesses at the expense of its purist theme.
For example 1 Gas Cloud for 4 is sufficient, ideally on a Lair or Gate, Malacoda/Knight guards Idol/Deathlock.

You use the word "tribal" revealing your Magic background (Lorwyn block and predecessor Onslaught block).
With those Magic blocks, building decks was like "building by numbers" as the synergies were just spelt out.
Mage Wars with its pick mechanic is far more sophisticated; having the right tool for the right occasion is far more valuable.

This is an interesting digression on the Focus vs. Versatility axis in the game which is rarely discussed.
Playing multiple copies of the same synergetic spells gives you Focus but at the expense of Versatility.
Where you pitch your camp is really a matter of personal style.
But if you want a book that's consistently good against all opposition, you need to have some Versatility.
Otherwise you're playing "match-up lottery", beaten by some nemesis builds and walking over others.

In case this sounds negative, I really like the religious adherence to theme and synergies in your build.
I am sure it can overwhelm many builds.
Just be aware such sweeping victories is a sign of "win more" and it's better to have a higher win rate.
Yes, it means compromising the purist idea to fit solutions to lessen bad match-ups; culling always hurts.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 01:55:54 PM by DeckBuilder »
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