Mage Wars: intriguing, but also hard to get into

[diceman]

Don't get me wrong, I really, really, really like the game, I also think it's pretty unique and really deep, but I also don't think it's that intuitive as most reviewers make it seem to be. As a person who is more used to Euro-style of Games it's sometimes hard for me to dedicate so much time into actually grasping every little detail of the rules, instead of, you know, just playing it. Actually I think that there are a lot (and I mean a LOT) of exceptions to various rules depending on various situations which make various mechanics very muddy and hard to understand. This game is hardcore (and I don't mean that in a necessarily derogative sense). What I mean is: you don't just sit down and play MAGE WARS. Getting the game and playing it, is like signing an obligation that you're willing to really dig into it. You can play 10 games and still stumble upon a situation, where just paging through the Codex won't help you and you have to go online (great Forum, btw., you guys are a very nice and helpful bunch), or you notice afterwards, that you forgot this tiny rule, forgot to flip that marker, whatever.

So, just curious:
How many matches do you actually have to play, until you're sure that you're doing it right? How long did it take you until you moved through the game's various phases fluently and didn't get stalled by rule-discussions anymore?

Cheers. 

[kiwipaul]

In answer to your mail. I think you are always learning.  The basics are easy to pick up on how things work but once playing there are always situations you are looking for in the rules.  There are plenty of important points hidden in the rules.  Perhaps a cheat sheet would be a good idea.  Anyway just decide what you think is obvious and look it up after the game if it is not immediately obvious.  Still a fun game anyway

[Zuberi]

I think Mage Wars is a much easier transition for people used to CCG's and Miniatures games than those used to Euros. It is a fairly deep game though, and does take awhile to master every subtle nuance. I personally made the mistake of diving into the full game, and I will not recommend that for anyone. Definitely play the Apprentice Mode until you're comfortable with the game.

From my experience, after 2 or 3 apprentice games, players tend to get the hang of the game and move fluently through the various phases. Rules discussions continue as they encounter new things, of course, but I'll stick by 2 or 3 games is all it takes to get into the groove of things.

However, even after playing for a year myself, I still get stalled on occasion by rules discussions and end up learning something new. Thus it's not a simple answer to your question. It will depend on how often a player is exposed to new situations, how often they question the rules, and how quickly they learn.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I think another thing to keep in mind is that Mage Wars is still quite young. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was only first released in the summer of 2012, which was a little over a year ago. Naturally, since this is such a complex game, there are still some relatively minor rules issues that need to be ironed out. However, in a game like this, even the minor rules issues can have a significant impact.

That being said, the main point of a game is to have fun. Don't stress too much about accidentally breaking the rules in a casual game. As long as you practice and learn from your mistakes, you'll be fine. If you play against an opponent who says you're breaking the rules, look in the rulebook or FAQ for the answer, and then if they're right, correct your play accordingly. Same thing if you're unsure about the rules in a particular situation.

The learning curve for Mage Wars is only as daunting as it is because most people are used to simpler games with extremely low learning curves that they can perfectly understand the rules right away with minimal practice.

For games with high learning curves, it's probably best to break the process into smaller steps, Instead of trying to be a perfectionist and learn EVERYTHING ASAP.

While Mage Wars can be somewhat of a time investment, that's mainly because it tends to take about an hour or so to play on average, which as far as I know is kind of typical of a miniatures game. You don't have to spend multiple hours a week pouring over the forums and rulebook and playing constantly. If you stress too much you'll tire out.

Life itself has a much, much higher learning curve than Mage Wars. You don't need to rush. Improve at your own pace and enjoy yourself!

[diceman]

Wow, lots of wisdom here. I will cherish your words. 
Still, an awesome game. I just was the unlucky guy who had to learn the rules all by himself. MAGE WARS is a game you learn best when you play against someone who already knows the rules by heart. I noticed with my gaming partner; when I taught her, she seemed to pick up things way faster than me.

[sIKE]

diceman,

I have been playing for almost a year now, and about once or twice a month I learn something new (that I typically missed in my many read through of the rules). The first 75% is quick and easy to grasp then you get into some of the details (i.e. revealing Enchantments), then you get into the fine details, and finally the weeds. I have been playing games for good number of years before MW came on the scene and up to that point a Euro was my favorite game: Agricola. I still typically get more games of Agricola in than MW though. Each expansion adds another layer of complexity that some find off putting as it adds more mechanics and markers and such. I love it.

[cymyn]

diceman,
If you stick to the apprentice books, you'll be an expert after the first game. Just keep the codex handy and don't worry if you miss a rule or two. Also, if interested get onto Octgn & I'll help you get up to speed. There's no substitute for a genuine face-to-face match, but I'm ugly and I smell bad so its best I keep my distance.

[diceman]

Haha, thanks! 
I'm already picking up mastery (slowly but surely), and I'm still determined to get to the bottom of things. Teaching a work-collegue MAGE WARS (Apprenctice Variant) actually did a huge job for my level of understanding further core elements. We still did a couple of minor mistakes, though, I completely forgot to tell her about the mechanics of Guarding (which wasn't too bad, because I completely forgot about guarding myself), but we still had some fun, and only had to resort to the Rulebook once, so there wasn't any stalling or downtime. We played our books mostly open for tutorial reasons, so I could explain some special effects better, while deliberately holding back some of my nastier cards in order not to demoralize her too quickly, but in the end I couldn't help winning. But I think she liked it nevertheless, and we'll have another match soon. And on sunday I'm gonna have my first match with a full spellbook (Ready-To-Use Starter Spellbook); I'm pretty stoked (I think I'm gonna try the Warlock).

[NerdGuy]

Yeah, the game can be a little rules heavy, but the basics are simple; the rest just comes with playing overtime.  Also, I found that teaching the game to people really helps to cement the rules (and as an added bonus gives you more people to play with)

[barriecritzer]

the warlock is fun to play, the first spell book I made was for the warlock